Canada Embarrassing?

[JP14]

France is very misleading, in their RWC squad this is their foreign born players:

Cedate Gomes Sa Guinea-Bissau (qualified 2008)
Bernard le Roux. South Africa (qualified 2012)
Sofiane Guitoune Algeria (qualified 1995)
Virimi Vakatawa New Zealand (qualified 2013)
Alivereti Raka. Fiji (qualified 2019)

As a former French colony, Algeria still has strong links and moving in 1992 it’s fair to say Guitoune is raised French. Gomes Sa qualified in his adolescence therefore again is French in my book. There are a lot of South Sea Islanders in the French team, for example Vahaamahina, Tolofua but they come from French Pacific territories therefore are 100% French.

[Mark62]

Pretty sure Itoje was born in london to African parents, so not the best example of a Pacific Islander...

He was I was using surnames as a search criteria, but I think he has Nigerian heritage anyway

[h's dad]

Pretty sure Itoje was born in london to African parents, so not the best example of a Pacific Islander...

He was I was using surnames as a search criteria, but I think he has Nigerian heritage anyway

Japan seem to have poached about half of their starting line up as adults from other countries. Possibly not that influential on the poachee's national teams but the principle is the same and the scale greater but nobody seems to have a problem with it.

[Mark62]

Pretty sure Itoje was born in london to African parents, so not the best example of a Pacific Islander...

He was I was using surnames as a search criteria, but I think he has Nigerian heritage anyway

Japan seem to have poached about half of their starting line up as adults from other countries. Possibly not that influential on the poachee's national teams but the principle is the same and the scale greater but nobody seems to have a problem with it.

Very true excellent observation

[Tiglon]

Gomes Sa qualified in his adolescence therefore again is French in my book

I think this line sums up the problem. We all have our own opinions on what nationality means. International sport was devised in an age when far fewer people could qualify for more than one nation. Then globalisation happened and nationality became blurred.

Should the rules be changed?

Is international sport still even relevant?

Hadleigh Parkes, Gareth Anscombe, Ben Te'o, Brad Shields, Virimi Vakatawa and WP Nel are, in my opinion, prime examples of the system not working. Maybe the residency period should need to be completed before a certain age? Should you be able to qualify to play for a country through a parent or grandparent, or not?

Is nationality defined by genetics or upbringing? Or both?

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

Gomes Sa qualified in his adolescence therefore again is French in my book

I think this line sums up the problem. We all have our own opinions on what nationality means. International sport was devised in an age when far fewer people could qualify for more than one nation. Then globalisation happened and nationality became blurred.

Should the rules be changed?

Is international sport still even relevant?

Hadleigh Parkes, Gareth Anscombe, Ben Te'o, Brad Shields, Virimi Vakatawa and WP Nel are, in my opinion, prime examples of the system not working. Maybe the residency period should need to be completed before a certain age? Should you be able to qualify to play for a country through a parent or grandparent, or not?

Is nationality defined by genetics or upbringing? Or both?

I don't know where the line should be drawn but 3 years residency is far too short on my opinion - that's potentially a single contract.

From 2021 onwards (or is it the end of the 2019/20 season) it's going to be 5 years which feels more reasonable.

Maybe a halfway house of 3 years before age 18 or 5 years thereafter

[Tigerbeat]

Didn’t Brad Shields qualify through British nationality is his family line....mother/father / grandparents? If so, have no issue with this.

[WhitecapTiger]

Didn’t Brad Shields qualify through British nationality is his family line....mother/father / grandparents? If so, have no issue with this.

Both parents English by birth, their respective families emigrating when they (parents) were both young/toddlers IIRC - Mother from Essex, Father from Hull.

[JP14]

Shields is a tough one as his parents are strictly speaking English but raised Kiwis, I wouldn’t have minded if Shields had played for Wasps for a while before being selected instead of being shoehorned in straight away.

[Tiglon]

Shields is a tough one as his parents are strictly speaking English but raised Kiwis, I wouldn’t have minded if Shields had played for Wasps for a while before being selected instead of being shoehorned in straight away.

My point on this one is: does having english parents make you english? You could be unable to speak English and have never been to England.

Some players don't even know they qualify for a particular nation until an agent or union contacts them.

[Cardiff Tig]

I think this is missing the point though. Players that play for England that could play for NZ/SA/Aus or another tier 1 nation aren't the problem here.

Even the small numbers of players that end up playing for tier 1 instead of tier 2 (and it is a small number in terms of WC squads for instance) can't be judged directly. They almost certainly wouldn't be the same player without all the tier 1 nation facilities and off-field resources etc. They may be better or worse but it's not as simple as saying if player X was in a Fiji shirt rather than a NZ shirt then Fiji would be improved.

Even if tier 1 nations went to Fiji etc to play games, that's still not going to provide enough money for the investment required.

[Mark62]

Agreed Sevu Reece for instance is a Fijian, but was offered the chance to play for New Zealand. This to me is where it all goes wrong

[JP14]

Shields is a tough one as his parents are strictly speaking English but raised Kiwis, I wouldn’t have minded if Shields had played for Wasps for a while before being selected instead of being shoehorned in straight away.

My point on this one is: does having english parents make you english? You could be unable to speak English and have never been to England.

Some players don't even know they qualify for a particular nation until an agent or union contacts them.

In my opinion, English paternity/maternity does make you English but it doesn’t stop you from being another nationality, for example Cokanasiga is both Fijian and English. We are all English, but we are also all British. I hope that explains my view.