Is Lavanini going to be a liability?

[RagingBull]

not sure on the comparison of matera and Lavanini.

Matera
20 year old, first time living away from argentina for a long period of time.

Lavanini
26 year old, already played a season in France for Racing.

A fair amount of difference in terms of experience.

[teds]

I've worked with people from all over the world with varying levels of English and the numbers of them becoming homesick and/or failing to settle in was never any higher than with British people. We already have a variety of different nationalities, including Argentinians, so why would there be a problem for him?

Id turn it around the other way. Why should we assume there won’t be a problem. We know for example that Pacific players have had so many problems they have formed their own welfare association.

As for your work experience, with respect I would venture you had absolutely no clue what the level of homesickness etc was in your industry if only because people rarely disclose their anxieties. We see more and more sports men and women opening up about anxiety and depression.

For me, I would say, I am paying this guy a huge salary, I am going to more than just hope/expect he will be ok, I will put some effort in creating safety nets.

[BigDan50]

Great post teds.

[Tiglon]

I've worked with people from all over the world with varying levels of English and the numbers of them becoming homesick and/or failing to settle in was never any higher than with British people. We already have a variety of different nationalities, including Argentinians, so why would there be a problem for him?

Id turn it around the other way. Why should we assume there won’t be a problem. We know for example that Pacific players have had so many problems they have formed their own welfare association.

As for your work experience, with respect I would venture you had absolutely no clue what the level of homesickness etc was in your industry if only because people rarely disclose their anxieties. We see more and more sports men and women opening up about anxiety and depression.

For me, I would say, I am paying this guy a huge salary, I am going to more than just hope/expect he will be ok, I will put some effort in creating safety nets.

So why not a discussion worrying about whether Leatigaga will fit in? Or any of the other recent overseas signings?

With respect, i would venture that you have no idea what knowledge I had of people's homesickness. You say that people rarely disclose their anxieties, then go onto describe more and more sports people doing exactly that. Which is it?

At no point have i said nothing should be done to help new players settle, I'm simply curious why there is so much worry about this with Lavanini. What makes him different?

[aslongaswebeatsaints]

Really looking forward to seeing him play. I’d rather watch an edgy brutal Tiger, knowing there may be occasional cards, contribute to a winning pack, than watch a bunch of kittens getting rolled over playing pretty rugby.

Surprised some so called fans can’t see beyond the last game. You don’t turn around 5 years of decline in a few games - it takes at least a few seasons. We seem to have recruited well in the forwards but there is the small matter of the World Cup. Our second tier are getting valuable experience to create depth when the first XV are fully back and then away again for the 6N, including most of the England back line that have shown what they can do when behind a decent pack.

[teds]

So why not a discussion worrying about whether Leatigaga will fit in? Or any of the other recent overseas signings?

Yes of course we should be concerned for the welfare of all players but this thread is about Lavanini. That said, as I mentioned players from the Pacific islands often struggle and because of that have formed their own welfare association which will provide some sort of support if he were to have any problems settling in. As far as I am aware, there is no equivalent for Argentinian players yet.

The thing I didn’t perhaps make clear, - beyond it being a thread about Lavanini - is that people often assume big tough successful guys are big enough, tough enough and successful enough not to have issues. This is clearly humbug.

With respect, i would venture that you have no idea what knowledge I had of people's homesickness. You say that people rarely disclose their anxieties, then go onto describe more and more sports people doing exactly that. Which is it?

I assumed you have no more insight into your colleagues mental states than the rest of us. Most of us are deeply unaware of many of the problems around us. You may be one of those relatively rare people who others naturally feel comfortable opening up to, or you may have developed heightened skills in a welfare role.

The reason that I and probably you have limited awareness, is that people with these problems rarely talk openly about their issues before things reach a crisis. The recent trend of more and more people opening up probably reflects both:
A) the increase in prevalence of crises as witnessed by the raised levels of suicide rates in young men, as well as
B) an increased likelihood of people being open about their problems, which might be due to better awareness campaigns.

So you ask “which?”, the answer is almost certainly both.

At no point have i said nothing should be done to help new players settle, I'm simply curious why there is so much worry about this with Lavanini. What makes him different?

I think it’s fair to say we should nurture all players, not just new players, not just players from overseas, all players.

But apart from this being a thread about Lavanini, which is why we are discussing him, it’s a thread about him being a liability before he’s even arrived. Dissection on social media is imho a recipe for letting the black dog out of its cage.

[Tiglon]

I'd love to reply teds, but it seems that Jerome Garces is moderating the forum this morning and I'm not allowed to

[mol2]

We were never going to keep Matera.
Not picking him for a Tigers side that was not exactly packed with talent was never going to make him feel at home and as an international he needed to be playing to continue his international career.

Fading internationals may be happy to be bench warmers at club level but not current international players.

[RagingBull]

Well we was never going to keep matera mainly cause Argentina changed their international selection stance and we wasn't going to play a 20 year old top money to get him to miss that.

Despite not playing for us much as you said he was still picked for the Rugby Championship after playing for us.

[fentiger]

As far as I recall Matera was a young single guy first time so far away from home.... from what I have seen posted on Social media etc Lavanini looks to have a partner and has bought his dog with him That should help him settle!

[ABClub]

I can't wait to see Lavanini in Tigers shirt. For years now we've been crying out for some hard edge and carrying in the second row. We sign a 20 stone, 50 cap international who featured in most Super Rugby XVs of the season for 2019, still many fans complain.

Lavanini and Green could be a very good partnership.

[fentiger]

I can't wait to see Lavanini in Tigers shirt. For years now we've been crying out for some hard edge and carrying in the second row. We sign a 20 stone, 50 cap international who featured in most Super Rugby XVs of the season for 2019, still many fans complain.

Lavanini and Green could be a very good partnership.

This +1

[sam16111986]

I can't wait to see Lavanini in Tigers shirt. For years now we've been crying out for some hard edge and carrying in the second row. We sign a 20 stone, 50 cap international who featured in most Super Rugby XVs of the season for 2019, still many fans complain.

Lavanini and Green could be a very good partnership.

This +1

+2 there's been many complaints about our lack of edge and lack of physicality. We sign possibly the most physical and edgy lock going in international rugby and people complain. The man is a monster and that's what we need.

I'd quite like to see a Spencer, Lavanini combination at some point this season. Spencer can lead a lineout and the pair of them would give our front row a big shive come scrum time. In the loose they'd be hitting a lot of things very hard.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

He has the potential to be the signing of the league this season, since Johno & Cozza stopped playing we have lacked a bit of edge, we have signed 2 nasty 2nd rows & Taufua isn't exactly a shrinking violet, with Genge that puts serious bite into our pack.

[ABClub]

He has the potential to be the signing of the league this season, since Johno & Cozza stopped playing we have lacked a bit of edge, we have signed 2 nasty 2nd rows & Taufua isn't exactly a shrinking violet, with Genge that puts serious bite into our pack.

1.Genge 2.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Lavanini 5.Green 6.Liebenberg 7.Thompson 8.Taufua
9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12.Reid 13.Tuilagi 14.Holmes 15.Veainu

16.Polota-Nau 17.Bateman 18.Leatigaga 19.Spencer 20.Reffell 21.Harrison 22.Taute 23.Olowofela

Not a bad potential side for Saints. These next two games are vital. Take points today and a win from London Irish, then there's 2 Challenge Cup games to rotate Lavanini and Taufua into the XV, bring Genge back in, get Taute into the side.

Points on the table today is vital though. Losing away to Worcester and home to Sarries isn't critical in reality. To get back to mid-table we need to start winning at home though.