Borthwick

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Cagey Tiger
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Cagey Tiger »

mol2 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:15 pm I thick that had Murphy not departed, we would wait an awful lot longer.
Given that there has been practically no training as a team since he left, probably the only difference would have been the pre-match talk and maybe not even that. That, though, depends on whether you think that SB was in charge of on-field affairs or, as some in here seem to think was just a glove puppet for GM.
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Re: Borthwick

Post by mol2 »

A bit like of both.

Looking at how little things had changed when the season restarted. (Fitness had improved) but the same game plan seemed to apply. My interpretation was that Borthwick was applying the game plan coming down from the DOR. I suspect spect in the short off season he has said that the team will play his game which was not what Murphy happy to accept. Presumably he took it to the board who took the view that Borthwick was the one to select the side and decide the tactics. Presumably this was at odds with Murphy’s understanding of the DOR role, hence the decision not to renew his contract.

In the end it was always going to be a relationship that wasn’t going to work unless Murphy could leave the 1st team to Borthwick.

Yes the last 2 weeks have been disrupted but I am sure the coaches and players have been remotely working on what was needed, presumably building on the work in the break.

This was not a side chucking the kitchen sink at the opposition it was a team who knew what their roles were and playing with intensity that we have seen from Sarries when Borthwick was a player and coach. Yes England have that too but at international level that is a given irrespective of the coach.
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Redstripeman »

Cagey Tiger wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:32 pm
mol2 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:15 pm I thick that had Murphy not departed, we would wait an awful lot longer.
Given that there has been practically no training as a team since he left, probably the only difference would have been the pre-match talk and maybe not even that. That, though, depends on whether you think that SB was in charge of on-field affairs or, as some in here seem to think was just a glove puppet for GM.
..no one was saying that!!!
Just that he had an input in an area he had little or any right to be.
Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club »

The game plan hadn't really changed yesterday particularly apart from a growing willingness (which was evident especially in Toulon) to attack from broken play, did we actually do a backs move off a set play yesterday?
What there was, was better application of the game plan, which casts a shadow on our absent England Half Backs for some of their efforts post 19/20 restart.
The proof is building from yesterday, that should be the foundation, a better team than Glaws might of made for a different outcome.
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Tiglon
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Tiglon »

The past is the past, and most of us will never really know what the dynamic truly was.

My judgement of Borthwick as Tigers' Head Coach started when we signed Wigglesworth, because that was the first action you could look at and confidently say "that was 100% Borthwick".

I'll remember Murphy as a Legendary Tigers' player and club servant, while looking forward to seeing how Borthwick takes us forwards over the coming months. That little period where we had both of them? I'm choosing to forget about that and move on.
Cagey Tiger
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Cagey Tiger »

Redstripeman wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:41 pm
Cagey Tiger wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:32 pm
mol2 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:15 pm I thick that had Murphy not departed, we would wait an awful lot longer.
Given that there has been practically no training as a team since he left, probably the only difference would have been the pre-match talk and maybe not even that. That, though, depends on whether you think that SB was in charge of on-field affairs or, as some in here seem to think was just a glove puppet for GM.
..no one was saying that!!!
Just that he had an input in an area he had little or any right to be.
Oh yes they were :smt002
Maybe not explicitly, but implicitly.
strawclearer
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Re: Borthwick

Post by strawclearer »

Cagey Tiger wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:04 pm
Redstripeman wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:41 pm
Cagey Tiger wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:32 pm

Given that there has been practically no training as a team since he left, probably the only difference would have been the pre-match talk and maybe not even that. That, though, depends on whether you think that SB was in charge of on-field affairs or, as some in here seem to think was just a glove puppet for GM.
..no one was saying that!!!
Just that he had an input in an area he had little or any right to be.
Oh yes they were :smt002
Maybe not explicitly, but implicitly.
My understanding is that Borthwick has been totally in charge of all on-field activities within days of his arrival - and that he communicated that in no uncertain terms to all who needed to know. He's also had the final say on recruitment - players and coaches - from before his official start.
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Cagey Tiger
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Cagey Tiger »

strawclearer wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:49 pm
Cagey Tiger wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:04 pm
Redstripeman wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:41 pm

..no one was saying that!!!
Just that he had an input in an area he had little or any right to be.
Oh yes they were :smt002
Maybe not explicitly, but implicitly.
My understanding is that Borthwick has been totally in charge of all on-field activities within days of his arrival - and that he communicated that in no uncertain terms to all who needed to know. He's also had the final say on recruitment - players and coaches - from before his official start.
:smt023
Noggs
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Noggs »

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:53 am The game plan hadn't really changed yesterday particularly apart from a growing willingness (which was evident especially in Toulon) to attack from broken play, did we actually do a backs move off a set play yesterday? .
Please give it a little time.

Much of Saturday's team were playing together for the first (or so) time and the covid problem prevented much of the intended preparation for the first game of the season. Despite that they managed a 5 pointer with a lot of excellent play on display. Mistakes were made but we can expect the number of errors to decrease over time as player familiarity grows. So as long as we continue to see improvement week on week I for one am prepared to sit back and enjoy the ride. :smt023
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Chobbsy
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Chobbsy »

Noggs wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:05 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:53 am The game plan hadn't really changed yesterday particularly apart from a growing willingness (which was evident especially in Toulon) to attack from broken play, did we actually do a backs move off a set play yesterday? .
Please give it a little time.

Much of Saturday's team were playing together for the first (or so) time and the covid problem prevented much of the intended preparation for the first game of the season. Despite that they managed a 5 pointer with a lot of excellent play on display. Mistakes were made but we can expect the number of errors to decrease over time as player familiarity grows. So as long as we continue to see improvement week on week I for one am prepared to sit back and enjoy the ride. :smt023
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DingDong
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Re: Borthwick

Post by DingDong »

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:53 am The game plan hadn't really changed yesterday particularly apart from a growing willingness (which was evident especially in Toulon) to attack from broken play, did we actually do a backs move off a set play yesterday?
What there was, was better application of the game plan, which casts a shadow on our absent England Half Backs for some of their efforts post 19/20 restart.
The proof is building from yesterday, that should be the foundation, a better team than Glaws might of made for a different outcome.
When have Fordy/YBY had that much forward going momentum post 19/20 restart? Give the forwards some credit there (and Aled Walters), they created the base for Wigglesworth/Henry to run the game so well. Agree about the next game, but the game after vs Chiefs is the one to use as a benchmark to see where we are.
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Tigerbeat »

https://totalrugbyanalysis.com/analysis ... is-tactics

This is a really good read and is a real positive as Tigers make the steps forward that are required. Obvious that studies have been carried out.
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LE18
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Re: Borthwick

Post by LE18 »

Tigerbeat wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:27 pm https://totalrugbyanalysis.com/analysis ... is-tactics

This is a really good read and is a real positive as Tigers make the steps forward that are required. Obvious that studies have been carried out.
Oh how I like reading reports like that, brings a warm glow of days gone by, hope to read more of those this season.

PS I hope our Taute doubters read this!
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Re: Borthwick

Post by jgriffin »

Redstripeman wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:41 pm
Cagey Tiger wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:32 pm
mol2 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:15 pm I thick that had Murphy not departed, we would wait an awful lot longer.
Given that there has been practically no training as a team since he left, probably the only difference would have been the pre-match talk and maybe not even that. That, though, depends on whether you think that SB was in charge of on-field affairs or, as some in here seem to think was just a glove puppet for GM.
..no one was saying that!!!
Just that he had an input in an area he had little or any right to be.
In that case what about McGinity's input, or Aled or Tom etc. He had as much right as them to give input, and it was clear SB had the last word. It was also clear what the last season was used for. Hence the lack of certain players so far. Yep, there was disagreement, and off GM went, but if anyone thinks SB was not the last word on the team, then they weren't listening to him.
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Re: Borthwick

Post by mol2 »

Undeniably since the restart we have looked so much fitter than we have done for several seasons.

A few years we had a reputation for munching sides in the last 20 mins. We lost our fitness coach and decided not to replace him and our fitness declined. Let’s hope that turn around continues.
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