Borthwick

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Tiglon
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Tiglon » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:43 am

Glass half empty? We would still be bottom of the league if it weren't for Sarries' punishment. :smt017

Am I the only one who thinks that's a bad thing? I agree, the future looks brighter, but the present is still rather ugly.

MOC finishes 5th: What a disaster, what a mess.

GM finishes 11th with same squad: no one else could have done better, great service.

Well, inconvenient as it might be, MOC did better. Much better.

Maybe the glass completely full and overflowing even when we are demonstrably the worst team in the league brigade should actually have a look at the league table.

OakhamTiger32
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Re: Borthwick

Post by OakhamTiger32 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:09 am

I guess there’s more than one way to skin the cat. The pessimist/realist would look at the table and see us languishing in 11th, our blushes only spared by the Saracens Saga.

The optimist (which is where I’m trying to place myself this season) might look at the form table and note that everyone’s form is up and down. Yes, even in the form table we are 11th but nobody from 5-12 is winning every week.

5 Gloucester Rugby 14 LLLWLW
6 Bath Rugby 13 LWLWWL
7 Worcester Warriors 13 LWWLWL
8 Harlequins 12LLWWDL
9 Wasps 12 WLLLWL
10 Bristol Rugby 12 WWDLLL
11 Leicester Tigers 11 WLLLDW
12 London Irish 9 LWDLLL

In fact, were you to look at form over the last 2 matches we would be sat 3rd with a BP win and a draw.

I know that there is only one table that matters but perhaps its worth thinking about our upward trend rather than focusing on the here and now.

We have a tough period to negotiate now during the 6N, but as the form table shows it’s not just us struggling for consistency.
Oakham lad born and bred, Tigers season ticket holder who yearns for the good old days!

MCC1964
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Re: Borthwick

Post by MCC1964 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:20 am

Tiglon wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:43 am

Maybe the glass completely full and overflowing even when we are demonstrably the worst team in the league brigade should actually have a look at the league table.
And do what exactly? Come on here and wail and moan and give you a pat on the back and say how right you are? Throw our toys out of the pram and walk away from the club?

Our current reality is what it is. Just to remind you whatever you say on this forum has no impact on the current situation. You are as impotent as I am. These discussions are not about where we are currently. That is immutable and does not need further discussion. It’s about where we are going. And I’m sorry to tell you that from what I have read on this thread and others is that the vast majority are generally optimistic and approving of the changes that have been made, the changes that are coming and the upturn in form that we have seen over recent weeks.

It really isn’t about being in one brigade or another. Being a supporter is just that - supporting. It’s a bit like being a parent. My kids annoy me at times, frustrate me, make me want to shout at them. But I still love them and always will. And I will always do my best to encourage them, even if that does mean I go a little one eyed or rose tinted from time to time. That’s just what being a parent is.

Tiglon
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Tiglon » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:03 am

MCC1964 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:20 am
Tiglon wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:43 am

Maybe the glass completely full and overflowing even when we are demonstrably the worst team in the league brigade should actually have a look at the league table.
And do what exactly? Come on here and wail and moan and give you a pat on the back and say how right you are? Throw our toys out of the pram and walk away from the club?

Our current reality is what it is. Just to remind you whatever you say on this forum has no impact on the current situation. You are as impotent as I am. These discussions are not about where we are currently. That is immutable and does not need further discussion. It’s about where we are going. And I’m sorry to tell you that from what I have read on this thread and others is that the vast majority are generally optimistic and approving of the changes that have been made, the changes that are coming and the upturn in form that we have seen over recent weeks.

It really isn’t about being in one brigade or another. Being a supporter is just that - supporting. It’s a bit like being a parent. My kids annoy me at times, frustrate me, make me want to shout at them. But I still love them and always will. And I will always do my best to encourage them, even if that does mean I go a little one eyed or rose tinted from time to time. That’s just what being a parent is.
I felt like you were making a point about supporting sports team for a minute there, then I read to the bottom and you made a point about parenting instead. This isn't mumsnet...

Joking aside, me being in the minority doesn't make me wrong, or make my opinion less relevant. For you, the discussion is all about the future, for me the present is important too. Neither of us gets to decide what the other should discuss.

I'm well aware that my posts make no difference to the club and that I have no power to change anything. I post because I enjoy discussing Tigers. Sadly, there isn't much discussion on here and most of my posts are met with accusations of being a Negative Nancy, rather than a proper response. Or, if the mood of the forum is different, I'm dismissed as a happy Clapper. I've been called both, yet my attitude towards the club has always been the same. It's just a lazy way of dismissing someone who's views you dislike.

Tell me why my opinions are wrong, not why I'm wrong to share them.

ads
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Re: Borthwick

Post by ads » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:20 am

Tiglon - obviously you are correct in terms of league posisitions past and present, no one can deny that, it's fact. But it isn't the whole story.
MOC couldn't even be bothered to turn up for preseason, so the squad were woefully under prepared and we got thrashed.
Geordie was asked to take over and sort the problems out.
It's taken time, but the bod have given him time and we can now see that starting to pay off. There seems to have been a lot of changes but we seem to be stabalising now.
Yes our league position is still :censored: but a couple of wins moves up the table significantly.
Last edited by ads on Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mark62
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Mark62 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:20 am

Your opinions are not wrong, and you are using the most obvious statistic to demonstrate this.
There are other facts, like more recent form, the fact that we have qualified for the challenge cup quarters will mainly a development side, only Bristol have done this, and to most observers things on the playing field are showing improvement, this is based on observation and is not quantifiable.
The present is important as is the past, but we can’t do anything about those, we can only try and influence the future.

Your point about league position under MOC is valid, but so is the fact that he choose to have a badly prepared pre season, decided to stay in Australia for most of it, and that the performance against Exeter was so poor he got sacked due to to the above reasons

Tiglon
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Re: Borthwick

Post by Tiglon » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:32 am

That's more like it. To be honest, I don't think my views are too far off most others - I too can see the improvement on the pitch and the positives of Borthwick, recruitment and youth.

I'm just a little more cautious with my optimism and can see the negatives that remain as well.

I hope that against Bath the positives continue to grow and the negatives diminish.

MCC1964
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Re: Borthwick

Post by MCC1964 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:47 pm

And more to the point it’s got nothing to do with this particular thread. I’m sure SB could have had his pick of jobs to go to. He knows what he is getting himself into, so clearly our current league position does not bother him. That’s good enough for me.

watsonjm
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Re: Borthwick

Post by watsonjm » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:37 am

MCC1964 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:47 pm
And more to the point it’s got nothing to do with this particular thread. I’m sure SB could have had his pick of jobs to go to. He knows what he is getting himself into, so clearly our current league position does not bother him. That’s good enough for me.
Might even be part of the reason. Imagine, SB takes takes from 11th to EU champs in 2-5 years. Next stop England head coach

MCC1964
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Re: Borthwick

Post by MCC1964 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:35 am

watsonjm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:37 am
MCC1964 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:47 pm
And more to the point it’s got nothing to do with this particular thread. I’m sure SB could have had his pick of jobs to go to. He knows what he is getting himself into, so clearly our current league position does not bother him. That’s good enough for me.
Might even be part of the reason. Imagine, SB takes takes from 11th to EU champs in 2-5 years. Next stop England head coach
Exactly. One of Eddie’s objectives was to ensure continuity when he leaves. With the clamour for an English coach for England I don’t think it’s a coincidence that two of his staff have gone back to clubs in a head coach role. I have no doubt we are probably a stepping stone for SB and to an extent it is a risk as he has only ever been a number 2 and part of me thinks we might be better off with someone with a proven track record, but overall I’m happy he’s coming and look forward to see what he will bring.

OakhamTiger32
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Re: Borthwick

Post by OakhamTiger32 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:55 pm

GM seems to suggest that Borthwick will be joining shortly after the 6N:

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/spor ... ke-3773106

Would be fantastic if it’s true as it would give him a great run of competitive games to start the massive task he faces rather than leaving it to preseason as originally expected.
Oakham lad born and bred, Tigers season ticket holder who yearns for the good old days!

RagingBull
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Re: Borthwick

Post by RagingBull » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:02 pm

Murphy says the team are "always looking to add" to their coaching staff.

"At the moment we are happy with where we are at, and have been building nicely with the group we have. We will see if anyone else is on the market and make those adjustments when necessary."


Found this interesting.
Very similar to what he said a few months ago when linked with Borthwick and Bakewell was still our forwards coach.

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