Borthwick

[RichieB]

What seems clear to me is that GM needs help as the current coaching set-up isn't good enough (scrum excepted). Borthwick has now had lots of different experiences across the country/world - admittedly predominantly coaching forwards. Having someone who is known and respected by players might also swing a few deals our way. I just wish he'd get here sooner rather than later.

[Leicestertinytiger]

He’ll do wonders for the young forwards coming though like Kerr, Martin, Lewis and Reffell. He’ll have the talent to work with.

[kend]

Ackermann's first Head Coach job was the Lions.
Cheika's first major solo head coach role was Leinster (As far as i'm aware him and Knox had a fairly equal partnership till Leinster)
Robbie Deans first head coach role was the Crusaders and Canterbury.
etc
Townsend first head coach role was with Glasgow and he won the Pro 12
Schmidt first head coach role was Leinster

When you look at Borthwicks coaching experience he's basically spent the last 7 years in International coaching and has been an coach in 2 Rugby world cups. That's a lot of experience.

Leo Cullen another example who didn’t have a great deal of experience before taking over a Leinster

I'm not sure Ackermann is a very propitious example: didn't he take over the Lions after they were relegated and rebuilt them from there. I think Deans took over the Crusaders in position of strength following a title win. Cheika took Leinster over on the back of Kidney's revival of fortunes (although he did do so in difficult circumstances) etc.

Every coach has to start somewhere and Borthwick may be a coaching genius. If we were in mid table taking on someone with no actual HC experience, but plenty of experience of working with top HC's, it would be reasonable. I just wonder on the wisdom if we are in stress and difficulty of a relegation battle. It is possible we could be. All this in the context of the club up for sale.

The analogy is a ailing company. I might have a MD with great potential available, but actually I would look first for an MD with experience of turning round similar companies in similar circumstances. And experience of taking the difficult decisions that entails. Might still fail, but I'm increasing the chances that it will succeed. If it succeeds I would slot my new, and more strategic choice, MD in from a position of strength and give them the best chance of success.

Still, accentuating the positive: over the course of the Euro games Tigers have reintegrated their internationals, taken the opportunity to rotate and get some experience into the side AND have won both games. A decent showing over the next 4 Prem games and we will wonder what the problem was........

[RagingBull]

Ok so what coaches would you suggest then?

The trouble with comparing business with a sport is they are two different things when you get down into the thick of it and done very differently.

From a business POV we should what sign Jake White?

[Scott1]

Is he coming then? And will it be before the 6N knowing England have just lost 2 coaches?

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

TBH, I am not really fussed if he comes or not, it's the sort limbo that doesn't help.
If he is stopping with England till after the six nations it's probably an issue with working with other clubs players.

We need to give GM all the support he wants, he may not be the best coach, but he might turn out to be a very good D.O.R., no one goes on about Deanos coaching do they?

That's where we went wrong with RC making him DOR, he's a coach.

It could be that Boris might expand his role as Dan Cole gets older & might fancy coaching, I think Dossers Lad will be a vital cog in not too long.

Dream scenario would be Scot Robertson...just isn't going to happen.

[Scott1]

I am fussed!! It could be the difference between the GP and the Championship,Murphy is a busted flush dont know how anyone still can't see it!

[RagingBull]

Even Scott Robertson can have his question marks if you go into it.

Is he only a success because he is head coach of the Crusaders.
Or is the crusaders a success because of Robertson.

[RagingBull]

Is he coming then? And will it be before the 6N knowing England have just lost 2 coaches?

Who knows but if he is contracted to the RFU to the 6N’s not much we can do.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Even Scott Robertson can have his question marks if you go into it.

Is he only a success because he is head coach of the Crusaders.
Or is the crusaders a success because of Robertson.

They hadn't won Super Rugby for a bit till he took over..think that answers it

[RagingBull]

Even Scott Robertson can have his question marks if you go into it.

Is he only a success because he is head coach of the Crusaders.
Or is the crusaders a success because of Robertson.

They hadn't won Super Rugby for a bit till he took over..think that answers it

But was that down to Blackadder being extremely poor...
When you look deep enough there are flaws to most coaches. which is kind of the point about coaches starting somewhere.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Even Scott Robertson can have his question marks if you go into it.

Is he only a success because he is head coach of the Crusaders.
Or is the crusaders a success because of Robertson.

They hadn't won Super Rugby for a bit till he took over..think that answers it

But was that down to Blackadder being extremely poor...
When you look deep enough there are flaws to most coaches. which is kind of the point about coaches starting somewhere.

Oh & been rather impressive with Canterbury.

[TigerBoy1880]

Is he coming then? And will it be before the 6N knowing England have just lost 2 coaches?

Yes.
No.

[fleabane]

If he is to come in due course, I would like to see him every now and then at Oval Park and WR, making an initial assessment at first hand of the squad, back room staff and club. Coming in completely cold will mean that his opportunities to make significant changes this season will be limited.

[kend]

Ok so what coaches would you suggest then?

The trouble with comparing business with a sport is they are two different things when you get down into the thick of it and done very differently.

From a business POV we should what sign Jake White?

There are similarities and differences - I think the 'turnaround' process is actually rather similar given both are fights for survival. And need a similar clarity of purpose.

I'd have suggested coaches with top level experience of digging clubs out of the mire. Cheika might have been on the list, Erasmus maybe, in a different circumstance that bloke in Edinburgh with experience of turning Toulon's season round and recreating Edinburgh as a force. Venter perhaps. But broadly coaches with relevant experience and approach.

I'm not saying Borthwick isn't the man. It just strikes me as an odd decision process that, presumably, starts off with the premise that the current coaching team can't cut it and ends up with an inexperienced HC/DoR who isn't actually turning up until after the 6 nations. By which time Tigers will either have pulled themselves out of problems or in a relegation fight?

Cockerill is quoted in various media today:

"I'm not sure Leicester have decided where they're at. Once you realise that you can do something about it.

"But no one's too good to go down. Look at Saracens historically and they will be right in the mix to survive - Leicester will need those 26 points.

"Leicester were in the relegation scrap last year and, unfortunately for them, their season has not started particularly well. They're in the same boat as last year