PRC Round 3 - Bath vs Tigers

[jgriffin]

To think players would purposely duck and risk serious injury just to get a player binned or sent off is completely crazy

As ever, the Welsh were the innovators over here with the duck into the tackle and the knees -up high ball catch. It's been going on for some time now, but no doubt this season will see an exponential increase in the number of players 'slipping'.

[kend]

To think players would purposely duck and risk serious injury just to get a player binned or sent off is completely crazy

As ever, the Welsh were the innovators over here with the duck into the tackle and the knees -up high ball catch. It's been going on for some time now, but no doubt this season will see an exponential increase in the number of players 'slipping'.

Certainly possible. But actually, as a coach, you would be mad not to encourage ball carriers to get lower into contact. Not necessarily to draw a red card, but to make life difficult for the defence. A tackler having to adjust the point of contact or go lower than they would like is more likely to end up with the ball carrier over the gain line.

[Mark62]

To think players would purposely duck and risk serious injury just to get a player binned or sent off is completely crazy

As ever, the Welsh were the innovators over here with the duck into the tackle and the knees -up high ball catch. It's been going on for some time now, but no doubt this season will see an exponential increase in the number of players 'slipping'.

Certainly possible. But actually, as a coach, you would be mad not to encourage ball carriers to get lower into contact. Not necessarily to draw a red card, but to make life difficult for the defence. A tackler having to adjust the point of contact or go lower than they would like is more likely to end up with the ball carrier over the gain line.

The last thing you want is a player going into a tackle in an up right position, makes the ball vulnerable and isn’t a strong position to absorb the hit.
Exception maybe if you’re looking to free your arms to pass out of the tackle, but you would be attempting to get your arms as high as possible in that case

[jgriffin]

Difference between leaning forward as you enter into contact, especially to shoulder or evade/spin, compared to vertical drop down, which is what I was on about.
First saw it done AFAIR by Aled Williams (I think?) in the mid 90s (Whites halfback). Mind you he was small, but it drew penalties even then.

[Jimmy Skitz]

Difference between leaning forward as you enter into contact, especially to shoulder or evade/spin, compared to vertical drop down, which is what I was on about.
First saw it done AFAIR by Aled Williams (I think?) in the mid 90s (Whites halfback). Mind you he was small, but it drew penalties even then.

depends how far forward they lean forward, if they go over around 45 degrees then the penalty and card should be given against them for leading with the head

[RagingBull]

Pretty obvious none of the Bath defenders had held White.

[Mark62]

Pretty obvious none of the Bath defenders had held White.

Having watched the club highlights I agree he was never held in the tackle so had every right to continue

[BFG]

Pretty obvious none of the Bath defenders had held White.

Pretty obvious that he was tackled.
He is flat on the floor.
FYI tacklers aren't supposed to hold tackled players on the floor, but tackled players need to release the ball to recycle or to get up and go again.
No wonder the breakdown gets very messy!

[Dr H Flashman MBE]

Karma for last season when Roberts was tackled by half our forwards and then managed to get a try out of it.

[johnthegriff]

The law needs changing several times last season a man clearly tackled was ruled not held and regained his feet without releasing the ball and went on to score or create a try, there were even more times when we were penalised for not releasing in the tackle almost as soon as the players hit the grass. We need clarity even if it means a player just slipping over has to release the ball before continuing. In the meantime Ben White did well, the decisions were someone else's responsibility.

[Mark62]

Pretty obvious none of the Bath defenders had held White.

Pretty obvious that he was tackled.
He is flat on the floor.
FYI tacklers aren't supposed to hold tackled players on the floor, but tackled players need to release the ball to recycle or to get up and go again.
No wonder the breakdown gets very messy!

FYI the tackle needs to be complete with the tackler holding on to the tackled player not slipping off. Then and only then does the player have to release the ball. This didn’t happen the 2nd tackler slipped off just before the tackle was complete.
Don’t expect you to agree but that’s the law and that’s what happened

[BFG]

Pretty obvious none of the Bath defenders had held White.

Pretty obvious that he was tackled.
He is flat on the floor.
FYI tacklers aren't supposed to hold tackled players on the floor, but tackled players need to release the ball to recycle or to get up and go again.
No wonder the breakdown gets very messy!

FYI the tackle needs to be complete with the tackler holding on to the tackled player not slipping off. Then and only then does the player have to release the ball. This didn’t happen the 2nd tackler slipped off just before the tackle was complete.
Don’t expect you to agree but that’s the law and that’s what happened

The ball carrier is grounded when taken off both feet and White was taken off both feet.
He's laid out on the floor for goodness sake with both knees stretched out.
Individual interpretations like yours just cause inconsistency.
If that were to be given against Tigers at Welford Road then I'd be wondering why I even bothered to turn up.

[TigerBoy1880]

Pretty obvious that he was tackled.
He is flat on the floor.
FYI tacklers aren't supposed to hold tackled players on the floor, but tackled players need to release the ball to recycle or to get up and go again.
No wonder the breakdown gets very messy!

FYI the tackle needs to be complete with the tackler holding on to the tackled player not slipping off. Then and only then does the player have to release the ball. This didn’t happen the 2nd tackler slipped off just before the tackle was complete.
Don’t expect you to agree but that’s the law and that’s what happened

The ball carrier is grounded when taken off both feet and White was taken off both feet.
He's laid out on the floor for goodness sake with both knees stretched out.
Individual interpretations like yours just cause inconsistency.
If that were to be given against Tigers at Welford Road then I'd be wondering why I even bothered to turn up.

I don’t mean for this to sound facetious but what about a tap tackle? If a player is tapped around their ankles and falls to the floor, does that mean they need to release the ball as that’s never been the case in any rugby game I’ve ever watched or played in. With a tap tackle, the player has always been able to stand back up and carry on even though they have been taken off both feet.

I know the tackle on White wasn’t a tap tackle but I’m just throwing another option out there on part of the law that you’ve suggested means a tackle is completed when a player is taken off their feet.

[BFG]

FYI the tackle needs to be complete with the tackler holding on to the tackled player not slipping off. Then and only then does the player have to release the ball. This didn’t happen the 2nd tackler slipped off just before the tackle was complete.
Don’t expect you to agree but that’s the law and that’s what happened

The ball carrier is grounded when taken off both feet and White was taken off both feet.
He's laid out on the floor for goodness sake with both knees stretched out.
Individual interpretations like yours just cause inconsistency.
If that were to be given against Tigers at Welford Road then I'd be wondering why I even bothered to turn up.

I don’t mean for this to sound facetious but what about a tap tackle? If a player is tapped around their ankles and falls to the floor, does that mean they need to release the ball as that’s never been the case in any rugby game I’ve ever watched or played in. With a tap tackle, the player has always been able to stand back up and carry on even though they have been taken off both feet.

I know the tackle on White wasn’t a tap tackle but I’m just throwing another option out there on part of the law that you’ve suggested means a tackle is completed when a player is taken off their feet.

You support my view with a great point.
A tap tackle isn't the tackler holding the ball carrier on the ground and it's still a tackle.
If the ball carrier wants to pick and go in any situation then he must release the ball plain and simple.
Refs always used to say if both knees hit the floor front back or sides then you are off your feet and tackled and must release the ball.
It's mixed up now with silly made up side interpretations.

[TigerBoy1880]

The ball carrier is grounded when taken off both feet and White was taken off both feet.
He's laid out on the floor for goodness sake with both knees stretched out.
Individual interpretations like yours just cause inconsistency.
If that were to be given against Tigers at Welford Road then I'd be wondering why I even bothered to turn up.

I don’t mean for this to sound facetious but what about a tap tackle? If a player is tapped around their ankles and falls to the floor, does that mean they need to release the ball as that’s never been the case in any rugby game I’ve ever watched or played in. With a tap tackle, the player has always been able to stand back up and carry on even though they have been taken off both feet.

I know the tackle on White wasn’t a tap tackle but I’m just throwing another option out there on part of the law that you’ve suggested means a tackle is completed when a player is taken off their feet.

You support my view with a great point.
A tap tackle isn't the tackler holding the player on the ground and it's still a tackle.
If the ball carrier wants to pick and go in any situation then he must release the ball plain and simple.
Refs always used to say if both knees hit the floor front back or sides then you are tackled and must release the ball.
It's mixed up now with silly made up side interpretations.

When you say refs used to, you must mean about 25+ years ago as for all the time I’ve been involved with rugby, a player that has been tap tackled has always been able to get straight back up and carry on. Are we saying every ref in every game I’ve played in or watched in this time frame has been wrong?

To be fair, when looking at the laws, it kind of does suggest this but I’ve never seen any tap tackle where the player gets back up and continues running in the last 25 years has been pulled back and a penalty given.