JP14 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:03 pm
...Liked our two tries though, we just need to score more and concede less.
Really is that simple
Always enjoy our trips to Sixways , nice place and nice peaple.
Appreciate too that youngsters need experience and that a season is not judged on one game.
The problem though is last season , when losing became almost habitual (the same as winning can) ; putting out a young and inexperienced side can be just another excuse for getting beaten.A fine line line and a difficult game to play but as a team and a club we need to instill confidence and belief and this wont come by conceding 50+ plus points first time out in a new season.
Geordan Murphy : " ....everything's fixed..." .I hope so.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
Question - How do our youngsters gain experience at the "Deep End" if they are kept in the "Shallow end" with water rings on.
Do we really expect our youngsters to be "World beaters" without grafting in the ranks to gain that experience.
Are we posters (a small % of the Tigers supporter network) over critical and over demanding. This can be counter productive
and demoralising to the overall team.Very few have illustrated positives from the Worcs game.Where's the balance.?
I for one am pleased to see the development of youth in the absence of first team members.They are the stars of tomorrow.
So I for one will give them that respect and encouragement to achieve.
Am I also pleased with the ethic that this Cup Competition was designed to nurture youth. Other teams who do not respect this ethic and use it for the good of first team experience, have to live with the balance at the end of the domestic season.
I will judge the club at the end of the domestic season.
Completely agree I think rather than people criticising tigers team selection the side that Worcester put out was not in the spirit this competition was designed.
Going back to my coaching days, I learnt a lot more about my players in a close hard fought game, than when they tonked somebody by 50 points
I can live with the result (albeit the scoreline is a bit harder to swallow) if the youngsters truly do gain something from it. Whilst it may quite not be Worcester’s full first team, it was significantly closer than ours. That was some way off what could even be described as second string for us, very much development side.
Upfront, whilst I would only list Martin, Lewis and Reffell as inexperienced, none of the other players are expected to really be first choice. The backs is a different matter, we were man for man pretty much younger all across the board.
The issue though, is how far off the pace were we? On the face of it, shipping 50+ points is a pretty damning start, and suggests not much has changed, but then I didn’t see the game, nor have I seen the highlights, so the headlines may very well be different from the detail.
Winning is a mentality, and my concern here is seeing how a Sarries side which was equally inexperienced, were able to dismantle a much more experienced Wasps side.
Last season was poor. Players have changed to a reasonable extent. Coaching hasn’t. If the level of performances do not improve, then there is no more hiding from it. But as I said, I didn’t see the game, so this is more of a concern than an observation.
Did anyone go, if so was it more of the same from last year, or were there signs of improvement?
Ultimately, no point getting too worried until we see much closer to a first team (or as close as can be during RWC). If we field a team comparable to that Worcester fielded in terms of experience and being close to first choice, then if the results still remain the same, only then will we have an issue.
The best way to introduce young players is to do so a few at a time into an otherwise strong team, doing it in a big group when you know they’ll be playing a team of experienced pros is setting them up for a beating and unhelpful and will certainly damage their confidence and can harm their development
As for the PRC, I question whether it is fit for purpose. I seem to recall that it was developed as a stepping stone between the A League and Premiership as a means to develop young and fringe players. The problem is that the lack of limitations on squads results in the gross mismatches we saw not just last weekend (not just the Tigers Game), but last season as well. Some teams use it to build momentum using largely first squad players, others for developing young and fringe players. This season it’s a “preseason” apparently!
I am fully aware that putting out a strong team denies those youngsters their chance and risks injury in first team players ahead of the season. But I also think we have to start winning and building momentum in what is a results driven business. Especially after what happened last season. A large part of building momentum is building confidence and I can’t see how shipping 50+ points builds either. It certainly won’t rebuild that doubt in other teams when they play Tigers.
Just the rambling of one fan among many. But a heavy defeat on Friday is not going to rebuild Fortress Welford Road....
Selection in the coming weeks might be a little different, possibly a few more established players introduced, a few more new senior signings, and a few younger who perform well despite the results.
With internationals away, new signings and no depth in squad, you can take two approaches to pre-season games:
1. Play your best available then as the season/injuries progresses, you have no experienced subs for continuity;
2. Play your 2nd/3rd choices to get them proper game time so when they are needed they add value.
Murphy appears to have gone for the second option so expect some losses and back the squad in the long term!
I did a little exercise selecting my first second and third teams if all available and compared them with Saturday's side, unfortunately although it looked good as I wrote it, it lost order when posted and looked a mess so I deleted it but it did show our strength in depth and just how strong a team we will be able to put out later in the season.
I firmly believe that those who are dissatisfied with the start to Tigers' season really should try and be patient.
Toulouse have not had a good start to their season defending their Top14 Champions title, having lost three of the opening four matches and winning one by the proverbial gnat's cock!, which is mainly due, of course, to the absence of their international players currently in Japan. This means that a lot of lesser known and less experienced players are having to step up into the first team. These players will undoubtedly make way for the "stars" when they come back from Japan, but the experience they will have gained will stand them in good stead and the club will reap the benefits in the years to come.
In the meantime, the supporters down here are not calling for head coach Ugo Mola to be sent to the guillotine!
Last edited by Robespierre on Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jimmy Skitz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:13 pm
The best way to introduce young players is to do so a few at a time into an otherwise strong team, doing it in a big group when you know they’ll be playing a team of experienced pros is setting them up for a beating and unhelpful and will certainly damage their confidence and can harm their development
Would agree. Gradual integration.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
johnthegriff wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:40 pm
...but it did show our strength in depth and just how strong a team we will be able to put out later in the season.
Agreed, provided they get game time in preparation, which thankfully the PC will provide
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:13 am
I will judge the season at its end not after 80 minutes, where we finish up & how is what this season is about.
... pretty much stating the obvious!!
Tantamount to the captain of the Titanic saying.. "we will make a decision of what we will do, should we hit that iceberg".. and his crew screaming "go around it"...…!
Yes we can not judge the team on this one game, no pre-season means we have to gain match fitness somehow. This side is no reflection of the team which will be contesting the Prem... and it is obviously foolish that anyone would see it as such!!
