Transfers and Rumours Non-Tigers 2019-20

[tigerburnie]

I'm sure some players must be thinking what is their best position financially, with clubs finances shrinking daily, ditto the RFU, maybe a bigger salary abroad may just look like a better plan rather than hang around on the off chance that a cap might be in the offing.

[kk20gb30]

The financial disparity in terms of individual remuneration is ,I believe, going to see an awful lot of French interest in The Premierships top performers , and a hoovering up of available talent.The players have to look after the longterm well being of both themselves and their families (if applicable) and in the present climate no one can really blame them for opting for financial reward.There are other considerations, international aspirations , new lifestyle and society and perhaps the pressure of having to perform to justify the 'Star Billing' and rate of pay etc , so the grass is not always greener despite first appearances.
In the case of Marcus Smith , for me , no one can doubt the talent and initial impact.This coming season will be ,I believe, his third full season as 'quins first choice and he is certainly on Englands radar.So would a move to France really benefit him ?
Financially , most probably ; in terms of international recognition , a definite ' No'. There may be more young pretenders (Umanga,Simmonds et al), 'immovable objects' in the shape of Farrell and Ford but for me the only thing stopping Smith taking the next step is pragmatism in his in play choices and game management, and these aspects would not necessarily be improved by playing in France - in fact the opposite may be the case.
Personal choice , of course , but I believe Smith would become a better, more rounded player by staying on these shores.Whether with Harlequins or not is a different question entirely.

[tigerburnie]

I disagree with the policy of not picking a player "just" because they play abroad, there was a long history of players playing for England who played outside of the English club game, John Scott was playing for Cardiff when playing for England and was it Colclough who was playing France and also played for England? Scotland for example pick players playing outside of their two franchises, why not England, I'd pick the best players available.

[ABClub]

Worth noting that Lyon also wouldn't be a bad place to live in your early twenties with significant disposable income...

I could also be a ploy to help his negotiations at Quins. It's pretty hard to know where clubs are financially at the minute though.

Quins have around £43m of debt (second only to Wasps I believe) but approx £30m of it is interest free and owed to their owners Blue Sky Holdings. After that they have a £9m bank loan that is due this year but was also due last year (uncertain what's going on there...) and a £4m bond issued in 2016 that will mature in 2021.

Club finances are usually tough to read though. Bath for instance currently have very little debt after using the CVC money to repay Bruce Craig in full. London Irish have around £16m of debt but it's all owed to parent companies.

[sam16111986]

I disagree with the policy of not picking a player "just" because they play abroad, there was a long history of players playing for England who played outside of the English club game, John Scott was playing for Cardiff when playing for England and was it Colclough who was playing France and also played for England? Scotland for example pick players playing outside of their two franchises, why not England, I'd pick the best players available.

England working with the PRL on this one.

1. By only selecting English players playing in England you are helping the English clubs retain their best players and stops them being poached by wealthy owner funded clubs elsewhere.

2. The RFU have an agreement with the PRL over additional release and player rest requirements. Players outside of the Premiership will not have those and the RFU would be relying on the player to agree those aspects as part of their contract. As that will probably have a financial impact on the player without definite international selection they probably won't want to do that.

ABC good call on Lyon whilst young and with funds. If we can get out of this Covid nightmare soon anyway.

[tigerburnie]

I disagree with the policy of not picking a player "just" because they play abroad, there was a long history of players playing for England who played outside of the English club game, John Scott was playing for Cardiff when playing for England and was it Colclough who was playing France and also played for England? Scotland for example pick players playing outside of their two franchises, why not England, I'd pick the best players available.

England working with the PRL on this one.

1. By only selecting English players playing in England you are helping the English clubs retain their best players and stops them being poached by wealthy owner funded clubs elsewhere.

2. The RFU have an agreement with the PRL over additional release and player rest requirements. Players outside of the Premiership will not have those and the RFU would be relying on the player to agree those aspects as part of their contract. As that will probably have a financial impact on the player without definite international selection they probably won't want to do that.

ABC good call on Lyon whilst young and with funds. If we can get out of this Covid nightmare soon anyway.

Agree Sam, but point one didn't stop Saracens breaking the rules from within the league and poaching players, once the UK is out of the EU at the end of the year, market rules may well change with regards to the free flow of labour forces anyway.
Quite sure if any club wanted to sign a player, they could include a clause in their contract permitting release for international training/matches.

[sam16111986]

I disagree with the policy of not picking a player "just" because they play abroad, there was a long history of players playing for England who played outside of the English club game, John Scott was playing for Cardiff when playing for England and was it Colclough who was playing France and also played for England? Scotland for example pick players playing outside of their two franchises, why not England, I'd pick the best players available.

England working with the PRL on this one.

1. By only selecting English players playing in England you are helping the English clubs retain their best players and stops them being poached by wealthy owner funded clubs elsewhere.

2. The RFU have an agreement with the PRL over additional release and player rest requirements. Players outside of the Premiership will not have those and the RFU would be relying on the player to agree those aspects as part of their contract. As that will probably have a financial impact on the player without definite international selection they probably won't want to do that.

ABC good call on Lyon whilst young and with funds. If we can get out of this Covid nightmare soon anyway.

Agree Sam, but point one didn't stop Saracens breaking the rules from within the league and poaching players, once the UK is out of the EU at the end of the year, market rules may well change with regards to the free flow of labour forces anyway.
Quite sure if any club wanted to sign a player, they could include a clause in their contract permitting release for international training/matches.

Saracens have just been relegated and given a record fine.

Brexit, who knows. This government much like the one before it and the one before that is barely competent if competent at all. No Trump means we need a Brexit deal so something will be hastily thrashed out. I would imagine getting a visa for an elite level sportsperson won't be a problem. Hasn't been previously. The major benefit might be if the pound tanks against the Euro and then a couple of years in France will look very lucrative.

The player can put that clause in their contract as some of the Welshies playing in the Prem have done but as I already said that will cost the player. Any club they are negotiating with won't want to pay for those potentially lost weeks so the player is likely to see a lower salary being offered. Fine if you know you're going to be picked if there's no guarantee player might just take the cash and let the RFU sort it out if they want to select them in the future.

[johnthegriff]

Any English player playing outside England does so knowing they forfeit the right to be considered for selection, the England release agreement with Premiership clubs covers not just matches but squad training sessions also. If a talented player negotiated a deal with any French club that guaranteed his release for all England requirements outside of actual match windows that could be a challenge to selectors but so far French owners have not shown willing to pay top wages to players unlikely to be available to them when required for club duty, remember the season across the Channel is still going on when England players are leaving on Summer tours and they will not have been back long when league games recommence in France.

[jgriffin]

Worth noting that Lyon also wouldn't be a bad place to live in your early twenties with significant disposable income...

I could also be a ploy to help his negotiations at Quins. It's pretty hard to know where clubs are financially at the minute though.

Quins have around £43m of debt (second only to Wasps I believe) but approx £30m of it is interest free and owed to their owners Blue Sky Holdings. After that they have a £9m bank loan that is due this year but was also due last year (uncertain what's going on there...) and a £4m bond issued in 2016 that will mature in 2021.

Club finances are usually tough to read though. Bath for instance currently have very little debt after using the CVC money to repay Bruce Craig in full. London Irish have around £16m of debt but it's all owed to parent companies.

Aren't Blue Sky actually owned by a hedge fund in Malaysia? Something maritime like Dolphin?

[kk20gb30]

Bristol grant three short term deals :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54892162

[happywomble]

Mr Bell, formerly of this parish, is off to Bedford Blues. Wish him all the best!

https://bedfordrugby.co.uk/news/2020/11 ... ford-blues

[AngusMcCoatup]

Mr Bell, formerly of this parish, is off to Bedford Blues. Wish him all the best!

https://bedfordrugby.co.uk/news/2020/11 ... ford-blues

He is a Butterfly!!! 8 clubs and still aged 28yrs even more than Andy Goode!

[ABClub]

Tommy got injured at a really inopportune time when he was just making an impact to LI. Had he not got injured he would have got another contract with them when they came back up to Premiership I reckon. Hopefully he does well with Bedford.

[kk20gb30]

Former Exeter Lock to Gloucester :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54938895

[kk20gb30]

Scarlets sign South African Prop (Short Term) :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54929883