Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

[Cardiff Tig]

Does this mean that you think Tonga, Samoa and Fiji shouldn't be allowed to perform a haka either?

[Mark62]

I have no problem if the AB's want to do the Haka instead of a national anthem. It would then be appropriate for the opposition to be respectful. Otherwise there is no reason why the rest of us should allow the AB's to determine the terms of reference under which a sporting event takes place or what paying spectators have to do.

The ABs do the Haka because they believe it gives them an advantage. If they thought it was a distraction to their preparation, if it was disadvantageous, to their performance, would they feel quite so strongly about their 'heritage'? If these same AB are so concerned about 'their' culture, they should work harder to resolve the appallingly low levels of educational performance, and the higher levels of crime and alcoholism amongst the indigenous population.

There is an issue around the AB's when it comes to referees being deferential. The stats are there for all to see (check statistical article in the guardian this week re awarding of yellow / red card / penalties) to Top Tier nations. Previous report in 2007.

If they would just admit its a bit of marketing, sponsored by Nike, good fun, you're kids will love it, please join in, I could just about buy into it. It's the holier than though concentrated hypocrisy that I dislike.

Fairly sure that Adidas are the All Blacks kit suppliers, apologies if I’m mistaken.
I’m sorry but all this rubbish about the refs being deferential to the All Blacks, maybe they just make less mistakes as any winning team does.
As for your suggestion re the anthem, are you suggesting that Ireland should only have one anthem when playing at home, as that takes as much time as a Haka.
You want to take the fire out of it then take your time after it has finished preparing for kick off.

People seem to miss the point that it’s a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing

[Traveller]

I have no problem if the AB's want to do the Haka instead of a national anthem. It would then be appropriate for the opposition to be respectful. Otherwise there is no reason why the rest of us should allow the AB's to determine the terms of reference under which a sporting event takes place or what paying spectators have to do.

The ABs do the Haka because they believe it gives them an advantage. If they thought it was a distraction to their preparation, if it was disadvantageous, to their performance, would they feel quite so strongly about their 'heritage'? If these same AB are so concerned about 'their' culture, they should work harder to resolve the appallingly low levels of educational performance, and the higher levels of crime and alcoholism amongst the indigenous population.

There is an issue around the AB's when it comes to referees being deferential. The stats are there for all to see (check statistical article in the guardian this week re awarding of yellow / red card / penalties) to Top Tier nations. Previous report in 2007.

If they would just admit its a bit of marketing, sponsored by Nike, good fun, you're kids will love it, please join in, I could just about buy into it. It's the holier than though concentrated hypocrisy that I dislike.

Fairly sure that Adidas are the All Blacks kit suppliers, apologies if I’m mistaken.
I’m sorry but all this rubbish about the refs being deferential to the All Blacks, maybe they just make less mistakes as any winning team does.
As for your suggestion re the anthem, are you suggesting that Ireland should only have one anthem when playing at home, as that takes as much time as a Haka.
You want to take the fire out of it then take your time after it has finished preparing for kick off.

People seem to miss the point that it’s a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing

It isn't 'rubbish about refs being deferential to the AB's'. An IRB report after the 2011 WC provided stats on penalties in the 22 and the ratio between No of penalties and yellow cards. It was the IRB and the refs themselves that reported on the AB's anomaly compared to all other tier 1 nations. On average 10-12 penalties per yellow card for tier one nations, apart from t ABs' who were in the 20s. It isn't 'rubbish' it's a fairly simple analysis. Add up penalties in the 22 divide by how many yellow cards. The IRB and Refs thought is an issue.

Earlier this week the guardian published a detailed article with a more detailed analysis. It revealed that in the last three years there has been a significant narrowing of the gap. Guess what, the ABs have started to lose some games.

I agree, that if the Haka is just a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing, then do it. But don't shroud it in some faux cultural deference. If the ABs were SO absorbed in the cultural heritage of their indigenous population they would 'take a knee' when their national anthem plays.

[JP14]

Does this mean that you think Tonga, Samoa and Fiji shouldn't be allowed to perform a haka either?

They’re not hakas they’re war dances, New Zealand’s war dance is the Haka.

[Cardiff Tig]

You're right, I was being incredibly lazy (and potentially offensive to those nations) by referring to them all as hakas rather than their own individual names ( ).

The question still stands though - if some people think NZ shouldn't get to perform their war dance should the other nations be able to?

[Mark62]

I have no problem if the AB's want to do the Haka instead of a national anthem. It would then be appropriate for the opposition to be respectful. Otherwise there is no reason why the rest of us should allow the AB's to determine the terms of reference under which a sporting event takes place or what paying spectators have to do.

The ABs do the Haka because they believe it gives them an advantage. If they thought it was a distraction to their preparation, if it was disadvantageous, to their performance, would they feel quite so strongly about their 'heritage'? If these same AB are so concerned about 'their' culture, they should work harder to resolve the appallingly low levels of educational performance, and the higher levels of crime and alcoholism amongst the indigenous population.

There is an issue around the AB's when it comes to referees being deferential. The stats are there for all to see (check statistical article in the guardian this week re awarding of yellow / red card / penalties) to Top Tier nations. Previous report in 2007.

If they would just admit its a bit of marketing, sponsored by Nike, good fun, you're kids will love it, please join in, I could just about buy into it. It's the holier than though concentrated hypocrisy that I dislike.

Fairly sure that Adidas are the All Blacks kit suppliers, apologies if I’m mistaken.
I’m sorry but all this rubbish about the refs being deferential to the All Blacks, maybe they just make less mistakes as any winning team does.
As for your suggestion re the anthem, are you suggesting that Ireland should only have one anthem when playing at home, as that takes as much time as a Haka.
You want to take the fire out of it then take your time after it has finished preparing for kick off.

People seem to miss the point that it’s a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing

It isn't 'rubbish about refs being deferential to the AB's'. An IRB report after the 2011 WC provided stats on penalties in the 22 and the ratio between No of penalties and yellow cards. It was the IRB and the refs themselves that reported on the AB's anomaly compared to all other tier 1 nations. On average 10-12 penalties per yellow card for tier one nations, apart from t ABs' who were in the 20s. It isn't 'rubbish' it's a fairly simple analysis. Add up penalties in the 22 divide by how many yellow cards. The IRB and Refs thought is an issue.

Earlier this week the guardian published a detailed article with a more detailed analysis. It revealed that in the last three years there has been a significant narrowing of the gap. Guess what, the ABs have started to lose some games.

I agree, that if the Haka is just a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing, then do it. But don't shroud it in some faux cultural deference. If the ABs were SO absorbed in the cultural heritage of their indigenous population they would 'take a knee' when their national anthem plays.

Interesting you only choose to address some of my points but fine. So you are advocating disrespecting their nation by taking a knee, or are you saying that respecting cultural heritage and honouring your nations heritage are mutually exclusive.

Let’s be clear the All Blacks have always lost matches, and if as you are saying the referees reffed with a bias towards them, there is only one body to blame, and that’s the whistle blowers themselves

[JP14]

You're right, I was being incredibly lazy (and potentially offensive to those nations) by referring to them all as hakas rather than their own individual names ( ).

The question still stands though - if some people think NZ shouldn't get to perform their war dance should the other nations be able to?

I understand it was laziness not deliberate. The question is not whether NZ shouldn’t be able to perform the haka but it’s whether teams should be allowed to challenge it.

[Scott1]

Teams should be allowed to challenge it,the hairs still stand up on my neck when thinking about the Welsh or French. Why should they be pandered to?! Walk up on it,turn your back,do the macarena,Whigfield's Saturday night,get oops Oop side your head going, a conga,anything rather than being "forced" to stand there! It's pathetic!

[Traveller]

You're right, I was being incredibly lazy (and potentially offensive to those nations) by referring to them all as hakas rather than their own individual names ( ).

The question still stands though - if some people think NZ shouldn't get to perform their war dance should the other nations be able to?

War Dance? We are talking rugby matches. If players are concussed there are protocols in place to ensure they are safe to return.I was unaware the same protocols were in place for soldiers in Iraq.

Nonsensical selective faux cultural homage. So to answer your point directly as if its really necessary. I don't think its a great idea to be doing war dances before sporting events.