Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
Does this mean that you think Tonga, Samoa and Fiji shouldn't be allowed to perform a haka either?
Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
Fairly sure that Adidas are the All Blacks kit suppliers, apologies if I’m mistaken.Traveller wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:07 am I have no problem if the AB's want to do the Haka instead of a national anthem. It would then be appropriate for the opposition to be respectful. Otherwise there is no reason why the rest of us should allow the AB's to determine the terms of reference under which a sporting event takes place or what paying spectators have to do.
The ABs do the Haka because they believe it gives them an advantage. If they thought it was a distraction to their preparation, if it was disadvantageous, to their performance, would they feel quite so strongly about their 'heritage'? If these same AB are so concerned about 'their' culture, they should work harder to resolve the appallingly low levels of educational performance, and the higher levels of crime and alcoholism amongst the indigenous population.
There is an issue around the AB's when it comes to referees being deferential. The stats are there for all to see (check statistical article in the guardian this week re awarding of yellow / red card / penalties) to Top Tier nations. Previous report in 2007.
If they would just admit its a bit of marketing, sponsored by Nike, good fun, you're kids will love it, please join in, I could just about buy into it. It's the holier than though concentrated hypocrisy that I dislike.
I’m sorry but all this rubbish about the refs being deferential to the All Blacks, maybe they just make less mistakes as any winning team does.
As for your suggestion re the anthem, are you suggesting that Ireland should only have one anthem when playing at home, as that takes as much time as a Haka.
You want to take the fire out of it then take your time after it has finished preparing for kick off.
People seem to miss the point that it’s a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing
Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
It isn't 'rubbish about refs being deferential to the AB's'. An IRB report after the 2011 WC provided stats on penalties in the 22 and the ratio between No of penalties and yellow cards. It was the IRB and the refs themselves that reported on the AB's anomaly compared to all other tier 1 nations. On average 10-12 penalties per yellow card for tier one nations, apart from t ABs' who were in the 20s. It isn't 'rubbish' it's a fairly simple analysis. Add up penalties in the 22 divide by how many yellow cards. The IRB and Refs thought is an issue.Mark62 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:33 amFairly sure that Adidas are the All Blacks kit suppliers, apologies if I’m mistaken.Traveller wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:07 am I have no problem if the AB's want to do the Haka instead of a national anthem. It would then be appropriate for the opposition to be respectful. Otherwise there is no reason why the rest of us should allow the AB's to determine the terms of reference under which a sporting event takes place or what paying spectators have to do.
The ABs do the Haka because they believe it gives them an advantage. If they thought it was a distraction to their preparation, if it was disadvantageous, to their performance, would they feel quite so strongly about their 'heritage'? If these same AB are so concerned about 'their' culture, they should work harder to resolve the appallingly low levels of educational performance, and the higher levels of crime and alcoholism amongst the indigenous population.
There is an issue around the AB's when it comes to referees being deferential. The stats are there for all to see (check statistical article in the guardian this week re awarding of yellow / red card / penalties) to Top Tier nations. Previous report in 2007.
If they would just admit its a bit of marketing, sponsored by Nike, good fun, you're kids will love it, please join in, I could just about buy into it. It's the holier than though concentrated hypocrisy that I dislike.
I’m sorry but all this rubbish about the refs being deferential to the All Blacks, maybe they just make less mistakes as any winning team does.
As for your suggestion re the anthem, are you suggesting that Ireland should only have one anthem when playing at home, as that takes as much time as a Haka.
You want to take the fire out of it then take your time after it has finished preparing for kick off.
People seem to miss the point that it’s a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing
Earlier this week the guardian published a detailed article with a more detailed analysis. It revealed that in the last three years there has been a significant narrowing of the gap. Guess what, the ABs have started to lose some games.
I agree, that if the Haka is just a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing, then do it. But don't shroud it in some faux cultural deference. If the ABs were SO absorbed in the cultural heritage of their indigenous population they would 'take a knee' when their national anthem plays.
Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
They’re not hakas they’re war dances, New Zealand’s war dance is the Haka.Cardiff Tig wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:20 am Does this mean that you think Tonga, Samoa and Fiji shouldn't be allowed to perform a haka either?
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
You're right, I was being incredibly lazy (and potentially offensive to those nations) by referring to them all as hakas rather than their own individual names ( ).
The question still stands though - if some people think NZ shouldn't get to perform their war dance should the other nations be able to?
The question still stands though - if some people think NZ shouldn't get to perform their war dance should the other nations be able to?
Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
Interesting you only choose to address some of my points but fine. So you are advocating disrespecting their nation by taking a knee, or are you saying that respecting cultural heritage and honouring your nations heritage are mutually exclusive.Traveller wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:11 pmIt isn't 'rubbish about refs being deferential to the AB's'. An IRB report after the 2011 WC provided stats on penalties in the 22 and the ratio between No of penalties and yellow cards. It was the IRB and the refs themselves that reported on the AB's anomaly compared to all other tier 1 nations. On average 10-12 penalties per yellow card for tier one nations, apart from t ABs' who were in the 20s. It isn't 'rubbish' it's a fairly simple analysis. Add up penalties in the 22 divide by how many yellow cards. The IRB and Refs thought is an issue.Mark62 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:33 amFairly sure that Adidas are the All Blacks kit suppliers, apologies if I’m mistaken.Traveller wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:07 am I have no problem if the AB's want to do the Haka instead of a national anthem. It would then be appropriate for the opposition to be respectful. Otherwise there is no reason why the rest of us should allow the AB's to determine the terms of reference under which a sporting event takes place or what paying spectators have to do.
The ABs do the Haka because they believe it gives them an advantage. If they thought it was a distraction to their preparation, if it was disadvantageous, to their performance, would they feel quite so strongly about their 'heritage'? If these same AB are so concerned about 'their' culture, they should work harder to resolve the appallingly low levels of educational performance, and the higher levels of crime and alcoholism amongst the indigenous population.
There is an issue around the AB's when it comes to referees being deferential. The stats are there for all to see (check statistical article in the guardian this week re awarding of yellow / red card / penalties) to Top Tier nations. Previous report in 2007.
If they would just admit its a bit of marketing, sponsored by Nike, good fun, you're kids will love it, please join in, I could just about buy into it. It's the holier than though concentrated hypocrisy that I dislike.
I’m sorry but all this rubbish about the refs being deferential to the All Blacks, maybe they just make less mistakes as any winning team does.
As for your suggestion re the anthem, are you suggesting that Ireland should only have one anthem when playing at home, as that takes as much time as a Haka.
You want to take the fire out of it then take your time after it has finished preparing for kick off.
People seem to miss the point that it’s a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing
Earlier this week the guardian published a detailed article with a more detailed analysis. It revealed that in the last three years there has been a significant narrowing of the gap. Guess what, the ABs have started to lose some games.
I agree, that if the Haka is just a spectacle that the majority of fans enjoy seeing, then do it. But don't shroud it in some faux cultural deference. If the ABs were SO absorbed in the cultural heritage of their indigenous population they would 'take a knee' when their national anthem plays.
Let’s be clear the All Blacks have always lost matches, and if as you are saying the referees reffed with a bias towards them, there is only one body to blame, and that’s the whistle blowers themselves
Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
I understand it was laziness not deliberate. The question is not whether NZ shouldn’t be able to perform the haka but it’s whether teams should be allowed to challenge it.Cardiff Tig wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:27 pm You're right, I was being incredibly lazy (and potentially offensive to those nations) by referring to them all as hakas rather than their own individual names ( ).
The question still stands though - if some people think NZ shouldn't get to perform their war dance should the other nations be able to?
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
Teams should be allowed to challenge it,the hairs still stand up on my neck when thinking about the Welsh or French. Why should they be pandered to?! Walk up on it,turn your back,do the macarena,Whigfield's Saturday night,get oops Oop side your head going, a conga,anything rather than being "forced" to stand there! It's pathetic!
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!
War Dance? We are talking rugby matches. If players are concussed there are protocols in place to ensure they are safe to return.I was unaware the same protocols were in place for soldiers in Iraq.Cardiff Tig wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:27 pm You're right, I was being incredibly lazy (and potentially offensive to those nations) by referring to them all as hakas rather than their own individual names ( ).
The question still stands though - if some people think NZ shouldn't get to perform their war dance should the other nations be able to?
Nonsensical selective faux cultural homage. So to answer your point directly as if its really necessary. I don't think its a great idea to be doing war dances before sporting events.