Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

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Mark62
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by Mark62 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:38 am

JP14 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:19 am
I think your underestimating, yes I have not seen officially any Fijian complain but I have seen a few people on Twitter (where else?) voice their concerns.
And how many of those are Fijian and how many are in the New Zealand rugby does what it wants camp
Surely if the Fijians weren’t offended that’s what really counts

Tiger_in_Birmingham
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by Tiger_in_Birmingham » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:54 pm

Mark62 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:43 am
JP14 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:32 am
Ritualistic or not, I still think it’s disrespectful.
What you think is immaterial if they are responding correctly within their culture, and the certainly weren’t being hypocritical.

In some nations a minutes silence is replaced by a minutes applause, do you find that disrespectful too
It's not in our culture to respond to the haka at all yet it is severely regulated; think back to Cocker's eyeballing, France advancing as a line or Wales refusing to look away.

I think in the era of professionalisation and sport psychologists' opinions it should be banned

chewbacca
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by chewbacca » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:01 pm

The Haka isn't a modern NZ tradition rather one of the indigenous population before europeans arrived. Its modern NZ that compete and they have their national anthem. The Haka should be reserved for local NZ competition where it has some relevance.
I'm not cynical just experienced

BengalTiger
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by BengalTiger » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:28 pm

I have always thought that the oposition should just carry on with warm up drill etc and ignore the Haka, it has nothing to do with rugby and is just part of All Black brand recognition, AKA money!

Mark62
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by Mark62 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:02 pm

BengalTiger wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:28 pm
I have always thought that the oposition should just carry on with warm up drill etc and ignore the Haka, it has nothing to do with rugby and is just part of All Black brand recognition, AKA money!
Suggest you google Haka and look at the history of it. If it’s part of All Black brand recognition why is it carried out at funerals ceremonial events and even before school games

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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by tigerssteve » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:21 am

Mark62 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:38 am
Hot_Charlie wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:59 am
JP14 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:32 am
Ritualistic or not, I still think it’s disrespectful.
It’s all ridiculous. It’s been nothing more than an advert for NZ’s sponsors for a decade or more; oddly tied in with fines for teams “disrespecting” the spectacle(/advert/joke).

It’s been turned into nothing more than an over choreographed boring pseudo tribal sideshow.
Which must be why a number of the larger New Zealand schools have Haka lessons, because they want to continue to disregard their heritage and turn it into a commercial entity
JP14 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:35 am
Mark62 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:43 am
JP14 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:32 am
Ritualistic or not, I still think it’s disrespectful.
What you think is immaterial if they are responding correctly within their culture, and the certainly weren’t being hypocritical.

In some nations a minutes silence is replaced by a minutes applause, do you find that disrespectful too
No I don’t but I don’t find the analogy relevant. Respect works both ways.
I don't know how long you have been watching the haka but 20 years ago it was no more than a Morris dance. Check out some old videos, it's farcical. Contrived, maybe but at least it is now performed with some authenticity and passion. As to facing it out, get stuck in, it's a challenge so no holds barred. Cockers himself did it very well!

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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by BFG » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:36 pm

The only issue I have with the Haka is that opposition are expected to watch it.
Just my personal opinion.
Sure perform a Haka and if that's what you want to do before the match then that's just fine by me but do it in your own time.
It would be absolutely no part of my match build up.
What is the point in me spending the 30-60 minutes warming up just to stand there for five minutes motionless before kick off for the benefit of the opposition!
In the meantime they get pumped in their way.

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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by strawclearer » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:41 pm

They're professional sportsmen.

They're in the entertainment business - it's how they get paid.

The Haka is part of the entertainment - ask the crowd!
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
Help save the Oceans - #RefuseTheStraw!

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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by Wes » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:09 pm

I'm not adverse to the Haka, it seems good fun. However, when a team gets into 'trouble' for not respecting it, whether by ignoring it or confronting it (and sometimes the crowd being a bit too loud during it!), it seems a tad hypocritical that the MAB's don't in turn respect another teams dance.
I only live there to wind up the population!

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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by teds » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:19 pm

tigerssteve wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:21 am
I don't know how long you have been watching the haka but 20 years ago it was no more than a Morris dance. Check out some old videos, it's farcical. Contrived, maybe but at least it is now performed with some authenticity and passion. As to facing it out, get stuck in, it's a challenge so no holds barred. Cockers himself did it very well!
I think I know what you mean, but you may mean 40 years ago, the era of Graham Mourie and all that, rather 20 years ago in the era ofJonah Lumo.

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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by fleabane » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:36 pm

A few people on twitter complained.

I have no doubt that they were all experts in Maori and Pacific Islands culture, or possibly just ignorant snowdrops.

Twitter? God help us!
Valhalla I am coming!

Mark62
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by Mark62 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:40 am

Any body who thinks the Haka is a side show should have seen the passion the All Blacks just put into it prior to the Aussie game.
Put the fear of god into me and I’m on the other side of the world

JP14
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by JP14 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:40 am

Their careers were on the line and they responded to it well.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

tigerssteve
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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by tigerssteve » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:58 pm

[quote=teds post_id=722548 time=1565122749 user_id=109]
[quote=tigerssteve post_id=722529 time=1565047308 user_id=16926]
I don't know how long you have been watching the haka but 20 years ago it was no more than a Morris dance. Check out some old videos, it's farcical. Contrived, maybe but at least it is now performed with some authenticity and passion. As to facing it out, get stuck in, it's a challenge so no holds barred. Cockers himself did it very well!
[/quote]

I think I know what you mean, but you may mean 40 years ago, the era of Graham Mourie and all that, rather 20 years ago in the era ofJonah Lumo.
[/quote]

Yes you're probably right.I just try to forget how old I am.

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Re: Kiwi hypocrites strike again!

Post by Traveller » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:07 am

I have no problem if the AB's want to do the Haka instead of a national anthem. It would then be appropriate for the opposition to be respectful. Otherwise there is no reason why the rest of us should allow the AB's to determine the terms of reference under which a sporting event takes place or what paying spectators have to do.

The ABs do the Haka because they believe it gives them an advantage. If they thought it was a distraction to their preparation, if it was disadvantageous, to their performance, would they feel quite so strongly about their 'heritage'? If these same AB are so concerned about 'their' culture, they should work harder to resolve the appallingly low levels of educational performance, and the higher levels of crime and alcoholism amongst the indigenous population.

There is an issue around the AB's when it comes to referees being deferential. The stats are there for all to see (check statistical article in the guardian this week re awarding of yellow / red card / penalties) to Top Tier nations. Previous report in 2007.

If they would just admit its a bit of marketing, sponsored by Nike, good fun, you're kids will love it, please join in, I could just about buy into it. It's the holier than though concentrated hypocrisy that I dislike.

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