Saracens are relegated!

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fentiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by fentiger » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:18 pm

So, according to McCall their England players aren't yet ready to return, although Koch is :smt017

Traveller
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Traveller » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:47 pm

It is going to be weirdly ironic having watched Salaraycens being so upwardly mobile for the last decade, whilst we in contrast have had to sell the silverware and move into a two up two down with an outdoor loo, to now find the most 'honest' and 'humble of clubs to be below us in the league. The Grace of God really does pass all understanding.

WhitecapTiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by WhitecapTiger » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:59 pm

fentiger wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:18 pm
So, according to McCall their England players aren't yet ready to return, although Koch is :smt017
Maybe re-arranging their co-investments is taking longer than anticipated :smt002
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

Chobbsy
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Chobbsy » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:01 am

I have a genuine question here, if they are in breach of salary cap, then they go on and play all the players who were making them break the cap aren't they then again breaching it? does it mean they will have to start to get rid of s load of players? if today as expected they accept the punishment, what happens about their squad? :smt017 :smt017
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Cardiff Tig
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Cardiff Tig » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:47 am

I would bet that some of the higher earners would take a pay cut for this season, allowing the club time to rearrange things. Even if they know they could earn more elsewhere I doubt they would leave Sarries, why would you!

Tiglon
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Tiglon » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:19 am

Surely if it's investment in players' companies that has taken Sarries over the cap, then all Wray needs to do is stop or reduce his investments?

This may mean some players re-assess things next time their contract is up because Sarries won't be as financially attractive as other offers, but I can't imagine any will lose all loyalty in the meantime.

fleabane
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by fleabane » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:21 pm

Dr Flashman “ On the plus point we won’t be bottom for a few weeks so that’s a bonus!”

And we can all sweat, watching them creep closer and closer, week by week, until . . . . :smt010
Valhalla I am coming!

Bungle178
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Bungle178 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:41 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50457698

Saracens will not contest the sanctions. The table has already been updated to show them on -22 points.

drc_007
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by drc_007 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

The last paragraph has some key questions.

What are they doing to abide by the regulations? Are they in breach this season too? And what about the impact on the squad?

wellstiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by wellstiger » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:14 pm

Well...Those questions answered by WRAY and McCall.

Questions not answered -
They are in Breach this season as well?
Are the players within the squad going to take drops in wages to meet salary cap?
Are players within the squad moving on? This season or at the end?
Can Sarries have a European squad ( different trading name ) and a seperate Prem squad and still be within the legalities of salary cap?

Can I have a rest now as I was emotionally drained - Tigers winning and Racing winning :smt038 :smt038

JP14
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by JP14 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:19 pm

Glad that for now this issue is over.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

DingDong
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by DingDong » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:29 pm

fleabane wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:21 pm
Dr Flashman “ On the plus point we won’t be bottom for a few weeks so that’s a bonus!”

And we can all sweat, watching them creep closer and closer, week by week, until . . . . :smt010
If we score the same amount of points as last year (41pts) and so do Sarries (78pts) then they'd still finish above us!
Unfortunately the sad fact is we are currently on 4pts and this time last year after 4 games we were on 9pts, so already worse, early days though!!!

ashleytiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by ashleytiger » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:43 pm

This from BBC Sport: How the hell can it be possible, with the squad they have, given they are no longer able to use the shared companies scam? Have their stars taken a massive cut in salary?

"And, in an attempt to answer some of the questions surrounding the impact of the penalties on the club, Wray said:

Saracens would not be stripped of any of their trophies.
The club is in compliance with the salary cap for this season and will not have to sell players.
Sarries will not be prevented from signing players in the future.
A director will be appointed to the board to oversee a new governance regime, designed to prevent the club breaching salary cap rules again"

They really do need to come clean!

Bristol Tiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Bristol Tiger » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:05 pm

ashleytiger wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:43 pm
This from BBC Sport: How the hell can it be possible, with the squad they have, given they are no longer able to use the shared companies scam? Have their stars taken a massive cut in salary?
I have no insider knowledge, but using the facts available, the level of fine is £3 per £1 "in breach" as it is over £600k per season. This aligns with the maximum points deduction they have received.

Given that three seasons have been listed, and a fine of £5.4m quoted (rounded up slightly) then the fine per season is £1.8m (meaning they overpaid by £600k per season). The press have listed 5 players with investments that contravene the rules (namely the Vunipolas, Wigglesworth, Itoje and Farrell). Depends on whether you count this as 4 investments or 5 players, but on average, each player was being "overpaid" £120k per season (or £150k per investment).

So, the five named individuals need to give up £120k annual investment each. Their salary stays the same (which I assume is pretty decent still). Or, the club has to find a salary saving of £600k from their £7m allowed cap to pay salary rather than investment.

Disclaimer: all figures rounded and based on what has been published. Legal expenses are also included in the fine so if these are substantial, then the above figures on salaries should be lower - so I think this is a worse case.

Redstripeman
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Redstripeman » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:06 pm

Bristol Tiger wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:05 pm
ashleytiger wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:43 pm
This from BBC Sport: How the hell can it be possible, with the squad they have, given they are no longer able to use the shared companies scam? Have their stars taken a massive cut in salary?
I have no insider knowledge, but using the facts available, the level of fine is £3 per £1 "in breach" as it is over £600k per season. This aligns with the maximum points deduction they have received.

Given that three seasons have been listed, and a fine of £5.4m quoted (rounded up slightly) then the fine per season is £1.8m (meaning they overpaid by £600k per season). The press have listed 5 players with investments that contravene the rules (namely the Vunipolas, Wigglesworth, Itoje and Farrell). Depends on whether you count this as 4 investments or 5 players, but on average, each player was being "overpaid" £120k per season (or £150k per investment).

So, the five named individuals need to give up £120k annual investment each. Their salary stays the same (which I assume is pretty decent still). Or, the club has to find a salary saving of £600k from their £7m allowed cap to pay salary rather than investment.

Disclaimer: all figures rounded and based on what has been published. Legal expenses are also included in the fine so if these are substantial, then the above figures on salaries should be lower - so I think this is a worse case.
.. so, what you mean is, they got away with it!!

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