Saracens Cap Investigation

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Traveller
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Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:26 am

The investigation was first announced in early March.

I would have thought all parties, the Premiership and Saracens in particular, would want this to be done and dusted.

Saracens is hardly Glaxo or Apple. It's a medium sized company with simple accounts for forensic accountants. The FRC investigation into Carillion only took three months. We are now deep into June.

I hope the delay is because the investigators are doing an extraordinarily thorough job. A cynic might think that some people are hoping the World Cup will be a distraction, and rather than the matter being 'done and dusted', the intention is to sweep things under the carpet.

JP14
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by JP14 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:52 am

Wouldn’t be the first thing the RFU would have swept under the carpet.
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teds
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by teds » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:07 am

The appearance seems to be that the way Saracens players are compensated bears little relationship to how it might take place in a simple company.

For me it comes down to whether whatever Saracens are doing is that far away from what other clubs are doing. I’ve no objection to Saracens being hung out to dry, but any review would need to be of all 12 clubs to be fair.

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:53 pm

teds wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:07 am
The appearance seems to be that the way Saracens players are compensated bears little relationship to how it might take place in a simple company.

For me it comes down to whether whatever Saracens are doing is that far away from what other clubs are doing. I’ve no objection to Saracens being hung out to dry, but any review would need to be of all 12 clubs to be fair.
I don't want to see any club 'hung out to dry'. Prem Rugby have already announced an investigation into Saracens.

Tournament organisers, don't need to investigate 'every club' because they investigate a single club, in order to 'be fair'. They investigate if they feel they have reason to do so, because the normal oversight processes they have in place are flagging concerns.. I simply wondered when we'd hear. It has been nearly four months now.

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Dangerous4 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:04 pm

I believe Sarries have been treading on thin ice, and it will be interesting to see just how thin. However, the investigation may well evaporate before our very eyes, and if not, will possibly being found not guilty of any misdemeanour. Their being "hung out to dry," is highly unlikely imo.

teds
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by teds » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:30 pm

Traveller wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:53 pm
teds wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:07 am
The appearance seems to be that the way Saracens players are compensated bears little relationship to how it might take place in a simple company.

For me it comes down to whether whatever Saracens are doing is that far away from what other clubs are doing. I’ve no objection to Saracens being hung out to dry, but any review would need to be of all 12 clubs to be fair.
I don't want to see any club 'hung out to dry'. Prem Rugby have already announced an investigation into Saracens.

Tournament organisers, don't need to investigate 'every club' because they investigate a single club, in order to 'be fair'. They investigate if they feel they have reason to do so, because the normal oversight processes they have in place are flagging concerns.. I simply wondered when we'd hear. It has been nearly four months now.
And I was simply offering a possible explanation of why it might take four months or longer.

Traveller
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:09 pm

teds wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:30 pm
Traveller wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:53 pm
teds wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:07 am
The appearance seems to be that the way Saracens players are compensated bears little relationship to how it might take place in a simple company.

For me it comes down to whether whatever Saracens are doing is that far away from what other clubs are doing. I’ve no objection to Saracens being hung out to dry, but any review would need to be of all 12 clubs to be fair.
I don't want to see any club 'hung out to dry'. Prem Rugby have already announced an investigation into Saracens.

Tournament organisers, don't need to investigate 'every club' because they investigate a single club, in order to 'be fair'. They investigate if they feel they have reason to do so, because the normal oversight processes they have in place are flagging concerns.. I simply wondered when we'd hear. It has been nearly four months now.
And I was simply offering a possible explanation of why it might take four months or longer.
Honestly wasn't looking to be argumentative. The National Audit Office Investigation into Carrillion (which at the time of its collapse employed 45,000 people across seven / eight different countries) took three Months. In order for the auditors to be able to ensure that Saracens are within the salary cap each year, the business model would need to be open and transparent. Otherwise Premiership Rugby couldn't make an annual judgement now whether they are within the cap or not. My hunch.....the carpet has already been lifted, and someones got their hands on the broom. Just like 2012.

teds
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by teds » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:21 pm

Traveller wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:09 pm
In order for the auditors to be able to ensure that Saracens are within the salary cap each year, the business model would need to be open and transparent. Otherwise Premiership Rugby couldn't make an annual judgement now whether they are within the cap or not. My hunch.....the carpet has already been lifted, and someones got their hands on the broom. Just like 2012.
I suspect your hunch is probably close to the truth.

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by daktari » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:55 am

I’ve no idea if Sarries are breaking the cap but some how they now manage to have the England, Welsh and Scottish fullbacks...some of their boys must be on minimum wage... :smt017
find a better way of life, http://www.marillion.com

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Scott1
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Scott1 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:18 am

daktari wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:55 am
I’ve no idea if Sarries are breaking the cap but some how they now manage to have the England, Welsh and Scottish fullbacks...some of their boys must be on minimum wage... :smt017
Hoggs going to Exeter.

JP14
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by JP14 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:49 pm

I think he was referring to Maitland.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by CitizenSmiff » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:51 pm

They've got all the money in the world and probably better accountants than the governing body has access to, no chance they end up getting punished. Our only hope is that Nigel Wray eventually gets bored after his 35th trophy and F's off to some other back end of sporting nowhere.

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by fleabane » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:30 pm

I think the question being asked is around the subject of players being encouraged and helped to set up business enterprises to provide them with something after their retirement (which, of course, could be after their next match!).

The idea is a good one, and should be followed by other clubs.

The issue is how the enterprises were set up, how are they financed, who are the shareholders, and whether they are sufficiently separate from the club in accounting terms.

You can bet that Sarries anticipated the questions, and will have already addressed them in the enterprises setup. If they have, good on ‘em!

Giving players, not all of whom are millionaires, a future is to be recommended.
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daktari
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by daktari » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:38 pm

JP14 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:49 pm
I think he was referring to Maitland.
Yup!
find a better way of life, http://www.marillion.com

marillion 18, coming soon...

Scott1
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Scott1 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:39 pm

Yes my bad,just was the first player who came into my head.

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