LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 1

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AngusMcCoatup
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by AngusMcCoatup » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:21 am

Thanks John, a breath of fresh air! ~ I hope you are correct we just want the pop corn machine to be kick started. :smt001
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by TTRITH » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:38 am

We've just had the worst season in our history, but it's okay we'll stick with what we got?

Bakewell has proved completely ineffective. Our forwards have been woeful, yet our scrum has still been a weapon this season. That shows that effective coaching can get something out of the boys. For me at the very least he has got to go. In a close season where Rowntree, Borthwick and Booth have all been available we must have been looking at a new forwards coach.

Geordan himself has proven to be an ineffective skills coach (for 3 years) and yet is now head coach and has overseen an abysmal season. Whilst I take the point of him not having a pre-season, he did oversee 21 of 22 league games where we finished 11th. I get the arguments behind wanting stability, but he should not remain as head coach. If that means the club have to change their model then so be it, because we desperately need to change something.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by kk20gb30 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:22 am

johnthegriff wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:59 pm
Many people criticised recruitment in recent years, the implication being that the players were not good enough. Thney then expected the coaches to win something with those players. There are now changes being made to the squad but some fans (many of whom complained that we sacked coaches) do not want the existing coahing team to have a pre season with the new players, presumably brought in to fit a plan, they want a new coach, any new coach, get rid of the existing no matter how short a time he has had, bring ina new guy to work with players not of his choosing and then no doubt sack him because we failed to win a trophy just like Harlequins, Gloucester, Sale and Wasps. Last season is behind us, we are well behind Sarries and Chiefs but lets see what happens next before we make more radical changes to the coaching team.
Player for player we have under achieved.Anyone predict we would finish 11th ?
This squad is better than that , and pre season I seem to remember you and many others praising its quality.Hypothetically , if Richard Cockerill were coaching this set of players would we be where we are ? I very much doubt it.
Mike ford worth his place, as is Boris. Geordan ,Bakes and Blake - on the evidence of this season alone - have to be questioned; they have neither enhanced nor improved performance.My own opinion , of course.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by JP14 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:38 am

Our scrum is our most potent weapon but we have failed to use advantage of it enough this season or use it to be build a gameplan around, we need to know when and when not to play for the penalty, we have to have all backrowers practising controlling the ball at the back in preseason till the cows come home, this all less Boris jurisdiction and more Geordie’s. Next season I would like to see us scrum down if we have a penalty in the opposition ‘22.

Do all this then we really will have the most dominant scrum in Europe.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:56 am

TTRITH wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:38 am
We've just had the worst season in our history, but it's okay we'll stick with what we got?
Has this been confirmed? Blake is out of contract and I don't know how long Bakewell's contract was either but he's been here 18 months. When the club confirm the coaching structure for next season I'll pass judgement.

It is worth remembering last season started with a head coach that made himself both attack and defence coach but who didn't bother turning up for the first two weeks of preseason.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by BFG » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:45 am

kk20gb30 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:22 am
johnthegriff wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:59 pm
Many people criticised recruitment in recent years, the implication being that the players were not good enough. Thney then expected the coaches to win something with those players. There are now changes being made to the squad but some fans (many of whom complained that we sacked coaches) do not want the existing coahing team to have a pre season with the new players, presumably brought in to fit a plan, they want a new coach, any new coach, get rid of the existing no matter how short a time he has had, bring ina new guy to work with players not of his choosing and then no doubt sack him because we failed to win a trophy just like Harlequins, Gloucester, Sale and Wasps. Last season is behind us, we are well behind Sarries and Chiefs but lets see what happens next before we make more radical changes to the coaching team.
Player for player we have under achieved.Anyone predict we would finish 11th ?
This squad is better than that , and pre season I seem to remember you and many others praising its quality.Hypothetically , if Richard Cockerill were coaching this set of players would we be where we are ? I very much doubt it.
Mike ford worth his place, as is Boris. Geordan ,Bakes and Blake - on the evidence of this season alone - have to be questioned; they have neither enhanced nor improved performance.My own opinion , of course.
I disagree with the highlighted.
Too many players were past their peak in my opinion.
Leicester have been clinging on to the past.
Cockerill wanted fresh blood a long time ago.
The squad desperately needed refreshing and I'm not entirely sure that all of the right personnel have gone as the desire has been lacking in some big names which always carries a danger of others catching in my opinion, but at the same time accept that a certain level of continuity has to be kept for now.
If they do not perform next season then I expect some big names will be gone as the excuses run out.
For now be patient and give it a chance!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by ay2oh » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:56 am

So are you saying that with the squad that we had you would have predicted that we finished 11th ? If not by definition we under-achieved. Our first choice fifteen contains something like 10 internationals and no-one would have said we would finish where we did and if we had the rub of the green with injuries and ferereeing decisions we could reasonably expected to finish in the top six :smt003
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by BFG » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:24 pm

ay2oh wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:56 am
So are you saying that with the squad that we had you would have predicted that we finished 11th ? If not by definition we under-achieved. Our first choice fifteen contains something like 10 internationals and no-one would have said we would finish where we did and if we had the rub of the green with injuries and ferereeing decisions we could reasonably expected to finish in the top six :smt003
I could not have predicted 11th but I did think that getting into the top four might be a struggle so on that basis 11th is not such an excessive fall.
It was very tight from fourth place down and throw in sacking a coach after one match, injuries, the odd red card and the odd debatable decision against and it's not difficult to see how 11th might come about.
The most disappointing thing is that the players couldn't overcome the troubles, in particular those considered more leaders who fell away badly when it got tough, but the squad is being refreshed so hopefully it'll be better equipped all round in the future.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by DingDong » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:47 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:59 pm
Last season is behind us, we are well behind Sarries and Chiefs but lets see what happens next before we make more radical changes to the coaching team.
Last season was virtually a full season for Murphy, so that was a good enough barometer to what he could show signs stability and improvement over that past season. Scrummaging aside, what aspect of the overall Tigers game has improved?

All this emphasis of having a pre-season to install your coaching structure is a false economy. They are all full time players/coaches, they have monday to friday over an entire season to piece together and improve what is needed to at least shore up the defence, show some consistent attacking threat, or even to manage the territory game competently etc etc. - but nothing shown except demoralised players.

After being in a coaching role for 5 years, then as Head Coach for the most disgraceful season in Tigers history, and people still think Murphy is the man to coach! We need a coach of the right pedigree to work with Ford and Stanko to get things moving forward or its another season fighting relegation.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:55 pm

DingDong wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:47 pm
johnthegriff wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:59 pm
Last season is behind us, we are well behind Sarries and Chiefs but lets see what happens next before we make more radical changes to the coaching team.
Last season was virtually a full season for Murphy, so that was a good enough barometer to what he could show signs stability and improvement over that past season. Scrummaging aside, what aspect of the overall Tigers game has improved?

All this emphasis of having a pre-season to install your coaching structure is a false economy. They are all full time players/coaches, they have monday to friday over an entire season to piece together and improve what is needed to at least shore up the defence, show some consistent attacking threat, or even to manage the territory game competently etc etc. - but nothing shown except demoralised players.

After being in a coaching role for 5 years, then as Head Coach for the most disgraceful season in Tigers history, and people still think Murphy is the man to coach! We need a coach of the right pedigree to work with Ford and Stanko to get things moving forward or its another season fighting relegation.
How many sessions do you think the players go through in a week? Virtually all of the structure and shape of a team is done in preseason, week to week training during the season is for tweaking and tactics. Professional level games are hard and most of the time it takes a week to recover for the next one. You can't flog the players all week because we were left with nothing and expect them to show up at the weekend.

We papered over the cracks (badly) and that was about it. A lack of onfield leaders and a club that just wasn't prepared for the pressure of a relegation battle made things all the worse. The negative pressure of the relegation battle was very much a big problem with a lot of the players really struggling with that.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by johnthegriff » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:27 pm

On holiday in France at the moment and having jus returned from an exhausting hot day on the beach and started drinking something long cool and alcoholic I feel the need to explain myself. I am an optimist at the start of each season, last year I looked at the team and thoght with those backs we can beat anybody, that was before the Toomua situation arose. Due to injury I doubt that our first choice backs played together once. Our forwards that most people seem to think were lacking actually did not do too badly, in fact our scrum stats were pretty good also actually our lineout particularly if you discount far too many bad throws by Taf. Our drive and maul from the lineout was lacking and we lost too many games in the closing minutes, a time when we used to come back and win. This may be be due to some of the team being past their best or possibly because they are moving on being unable to summon that little bit extra.
Pre season is important, If full fitness is not achieved before the matches start it is impossible to catch up without tiring the team. A normal weeks training with Saturday matches consists of analysis of the previous match, fitness assesment and a gentle loosen up on Monday. Tuesday is tougher with tactics coming into it and the players working hard, Wednesday is a day off. Thursday concentration is on tactics involving the team and bench adjustments. Friday is just the Captains run through. Of course we rarely get matches on successive Saturdays so everything has to change as it does when players are absent for England squad training.
I really think we should maintain stability in the coaching team, reduce the quality gap between the first and second choice players with astute signings and development of our quality young players.
I am an optimist and have bought tickets and secured accomodation in Marsaille for the Heineken/ Challenge Cup weekend.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by CitizenSmiff » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:25 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:27 pm
I really think we should maintain stability in the coaching team, reduce the quality gap between the first and second choice players with astute signings and development of our quality young players.
I am an optimist and have bought tickets and secured accomodation in Marsaille for the Heineken/ Challenge Cup weekend.
Bold, I like it! Worst comes to worst you get a nice holiday in a beautiful city (as long as you don't let your possessions out of your sight and know some good swear words in French).

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by strawclearer » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:43 pm

Dr H Flashman MBE wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:47 am
Spoiler alert... No cutting loose and no popcorn!!! Sad day.
Morrisons have Butterkist Cinema Sweet Popcorn on special offer for a couple of days apparently.
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
Help save the Oceans - #RefuseTheStraw!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by TigerMac3 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:32 pm

No Luke Wallace then. Has signed for Coventry. Be a very good addition at that level, if he stays fit

Do we think we have sufficient back row cover?

*EDIT: seen this has been added to the ‘Non-Tigers’ thread...

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by FrontRowUnionMember » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:11 pm

So, are we viewing Reffell as ready to step up as immediate backup to Thompson? Or is Coghlan seen in that role? Or do we think there’s still another player to come over in for that role?

Front row, fairly well covered, interesting to see who steps up next out of Grahamslaw and Hills.
Lock, could be ok, maybe room for one more depending on where the club see Lewis, Jordan and Martin.
Back row, even allowing for Coghlan and Liebenberg, I still feel we’re one more short, again depending whether the club see Lewis as lock or back row, and how close him, Lavin, Gough and Smith, plus how Denton’s future shapes up.
Scrum half we’re good, but I think fly half still looks a bit stretched with Hardwick still relatively inexperienced and Ford likely to be away with England a fair bit. Granted Reid could step in, but that impacts on our options at 12. Is Costelow deemed close enough? Is Worth viewed as an option after appearing there in the A league.
Centre looks fairly well covered if Viljoen and/or Thomas sign on.
Back three still has a gap or two in my opinion. I’d love to see another x-factor winger, someone like Alessana or Goneva that keeps defenders attention on sheer presence alone. I really like May and Holmes, but those guys just has something different, would love to see us add another Pacific Islander. Full back, arguably not too bad, but wouldn’t have minded Blommetjies joining, good appreciation of space with decent pace too. Provably either a winger and allow Holmes to float between wing and fullback as required, or else a fullback and allow Veianu to cover wing also.

Perhaps room to add 2-3 of those positions listed above based someone showing up at the World Cup? Maybe some of those positions are already addressed but just not yet announced.

Hopefully also add a new forward coach, and defence coach, to make the most of what we have.

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