Sir Barnes

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teds
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by teds » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:56 pm

Mark62 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:20 pm
What little credibility you did have has now completely disappeared and I shall not be responding to any more of your posts.
Mark, we all have varying degrees of “credibility” but we must all remember to disagree politely.
I know it’s very difficult. Some of your own posts are great and some are - shall we say- not so great, at least in my own humble - sometimes more credible than other times - opinion.

The forum is richer for having all of us folk with different views pitching in, even if some opinions are more challenging than others.

Crofty
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by Crofty » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:31 pm

mol2 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:01 pm
The problem lies in the law itself.
If the tackler releases immediately the tackled player gets up and carries on. If he holds on he gets penalised.

All that needs to change is the requirement to be held is got rid of. If you are brought down (any part of the body other than the feet on the ground) then you should be required to release the ball and get back to your feet before playing the ball. No crawling or rolling. Held or not then disappears and any tackler who holds on after bringing the player down will rightly be penalised.
Does it need a "down by contact" type rule such as they have in American Football, do you think?
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

Ian Cant
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by Ian Cant » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:54 pm

A top bloke and superb ref. Watched him ref many games ( and seen him reffing many games on TV) and he just has a great empathy with the players and fans. All refs need to use the TMO like he does, sparingly.
In my mind one of the very best in the game today and throughout the last few decades.
I am always glad when he is appointed to our games.

mol2
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by mol2 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:04 am

Crofty wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:31 pm
mol2 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:01 pm
The problem lies in the law itself.
If the tackler releases immediately the tackled player gets up and carries on. If he holds on he gets penalised.

All that needs to change is the requirement to be held is got rid of. If you are brought down (any part of the body other than the feet on the ground) then you should be required to release the ball and get back to your feet before playing the ball. No crawling or rolling. Held or not then disappears and any tackler who holds on after bringing the player down will rightly be penalised.
Does it need a "down by contact" type rule such as they have in American Football, do you think?
I think so - just to avoid this interpretation of held/not held/not releasing. Simpler for the refs and the game. Brought down by any form of tackle and release is mandatory.

Scott1
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by Scott1 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:49 am

What about tap tackles then? For a carrier to hit the ground momentarily and not be allowed to bounce back up and carry on would be wholly unfair imo.

1989Tiger
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by 1989Tiger » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:20 am

I don’t think we need yet another law introduced to the game.

A player makes a tackle and when the tackled player is on the ground, the tackler releases. That’s the way it’s always been. It’s a very simple law and one that doesn’t need to be made more complicated. There’s far too many complicated laws in the game, we don’t need any more.

We are trying to grow the game and introduce new people to it. The laws need to be made simpler, not more complicated and new laws added.

johnthegriff
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by johnthegriff » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:02 am

Barnes is without doubt the best referee but he, I am sure will agree that he is not always right. In Tiger's matches this season he has denied an Olowofela try against Gloucester, accepting without checking the interpretation of the TMO, he has missed a very obvious knock on followed by a forward pass against which led to Exeter scoring a try against us and away to Bristol a tackled player went to ground was released by our player and got to his feet without releasing the ball continuing the move which led to a try. Reffing is a tough job and errors are inevitable, Barnes makes fewer mistakes than other officials but is not infallible.
BFG makes a good point regarding the breakdown, players fly in off their feet sometimes going beyond the ball, collisions are inevitable, Tom Youngs recent red card was due to such a collision thankfully without damaging a player but the action is mirrored several times in every game.
1989Tiger I think is right, clarity demands that a tackled player should be released immediately if possible not always easy if an arm is trapped or if another player land on top, Mol62 I think is also correct in that a tackled player going down with the ball should release it and regather before continuing his run.
Back to the subject Barnes is the best referee but sometimes the law and its interpretation is an ass!

Robespierre
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by Robespierre » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:11 am

Scott1 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:49 am
What about tap tackles then? For a carrier to hit the ground momentarily and not be allowed to bounce back up and carry on would be wholly unfair imo.
With a tap tackle, the player tackled is not held so does that mean he doesn’t need to release the ball before picking it up again?
Semper in excreta

BFG
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by BFG » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:17 am

1989Tiger wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:20 am
I don’t think we need yet another law introduced to the game.

A player makes a tackle and when the tackled player is on the ground, the tackler releases. That’s the way it’s always been. It’s a very simple law and one that doesn’t need to be made more complicated. There’s far too many complicated laws in the game, we don’t need any more.

We are trying to grow the game and introduce new people to it. The laws need to be made simpler, not more complicated and new laws added.
Yes I agree.
The way the laws explain it is that when the tackler is on the ground and has a hold of the tackled player then both are deemed to be to grounded and both must release, the tackler must release the tackled player and the tackled player must release the ball.
Having watched the Nowell incident over it is a penalty in my opinion as the tackler doesn't let go on the ground.
Perhaps though it should not have even got to that point, as just after the tackle from Lozowski on Simmons another Sarries player Tomkins crawls on his hands over the top of the potential ruck, and then Itoje makes a tackle and it's over the shoulder which I've seen penalised often this season.
In particular I recall Ford being penalised a couple of times for tackling over the shoulder.
The fact that Itoje is a big man should not matter, as it did not matter for Spencer's red card.
Three potential penalties in the space of about twenty seconds in the sixty ninth minute and all designed to slow down the attacks ability to recycle quickly.
That is a way in which Sarries are allowed to dominate.

GETHIN EXILE
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by GETHIN EXILE » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:30 pm

all that is needed to sort out the tackle is a return to the old ways

1 when a player is tackled as soon as any part of his body, other than the soles of his feet, touches the ground the tackled player must release the ball.

2 once the tackle is complete ie once the ball has been released the tackler must release the tackled player.

3 both players must immediately roll away from the tackle area once the tackle is complete.

4 any player preventing 3 from happening, by diving, laying or sitting on top of either the tackler or the tackled player is then "off feet and interfering" and concedes a penalty

BFG
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by BFG » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:13 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:02 am
Barnes is without doubt the best referee but he, I am sure will agree that he is not always right. In Tiger's matches this season he has denied an Olowofela try against Gloucester, accepting without checking the interpretation of the TMO, he has missed a very obvious knock on followed by a forward pass against which led to Exeter scoring a try against us and away to Bristol a tackled player went to ground was released by our player and got to his feet without releasing the ball continuing the move which led to a try. Reffing is a tough job and errors are inevitable, Barnes makes fewer mistakes than other officials but is not infallible.
BFG makes a good point regarding the breakdown, players fly in off their feet sometimes going beyond the ball, collisions are inevitable, Tom Youngs recent red card was due to such a collision thankfully without damaging a player but the action is mirrored several times in every game.
1989Tiger I think is right, clarity demands that a tackled player should be released immediately if possible not always easy if an arm is trapped or if another player land on top, Mol62 I think is also correct in that a tackled player going down with the ball should release it and regather before continuing his run.
Back to the subject Barnes is the best referee but sometimes the law and its interpretation is an ass!
Premiership Final - 66th minute in the build up to Maitland's try - Kruis.
One of many from both sides on the day.

Scott1
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by Scott1 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:05 pm

I don't believe TY intentionally did anything wrong in the Chiefs red card incident. Ironically that was the only time one of their players rolled away all game and it was just bad timing. Posters are talking about Sarries but Chiefs are far worse!!!

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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by BFG » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:16 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:05 pm
I don't believe TY intentionally did anything wrong in the Chiefs red card incident. Ironically that was the only time one of their players rolled away all game and it was just bad timing. Posters are talking about Sarries but Chiefs are far worse!!!
Agreed!
First minute of the match and the Chiefs number 5 did Farrell TWICE!

fleabane
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by fleabane » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:06 pm

The one thing Barnes has not yet achieved is to officiate at the World Cup Final. To do so, England will have to fail to get there. I would love him to achieve the pinnacle of a refs career, albeit at the expense of England.
Valhalla I am coming!

mol2
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Re: Sir Barnes

Post by mol2 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:15 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:49 am
What about tap tackles then? For a carrier to hit the ground momentarily and not be allowed to bounce back up and carry on would be wholly unfair imo.
He can always release the ball, bounce back up and play it!

Relatively speaking tap tackles are few and may be a price to pay for the solving of the holding/crawling mess and with it the lottery of who gets penalised.

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