Cipriani

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3347
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by BFG »

Cipriani is without doubt the best 10 in England.
Ford is a good player but just doesn't go for it enough.
Cipriani's on pitch leadership and organisational skills are excellent and something England could do with, the ability to adapt on the pitch when plan A or plan B isn't working is something that they have struggled with and also something that Tigers could've done with this season.
He should've been playing regularly for England along with Dan Robson and Alex Goode, absolutely no doubt about it.
I'd also find room in the squad for Lozowski, and Barritt who is solid as a rock and miles ahead of Te'o.
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16783
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by Scott1 »

Alex Goode v the high ball,discuss. :smt005
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
shedhead1
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:53 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by shedhead1 »

Shedhead 1 here
Thanks BFG .......thank you. Someone with rugby sense at long last.

Lets also include Olley Thorley and Mark Atkinson in the discussion as the awards team 15 stated we had the best 10/11/and 12.

Olley is a great prospect - but Mostart is very very special and akin to a Rob Fidler.

Also best try of the season against your boys at KH.

Bob
westwinds31
Super User
Super User
Posts: 5975
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:26 am

Re: Cipriani

Post by westwinds31 »

Great player, yes, if he’s allowed to run the show. At Gloucester, I imagine that he made sure that he was going to be top dog, as in he is the organiser, play maker and almost the actual backs coach. Everything runs off him. If you have a pack going forward it makes it all the better, more time and space etc

For England, it doesn’t work like that. Yes, Farrell is the pivot but the playbook is more coach led I suspect, with obvious input from Faz and Ford. Cipriani I suspect would not enjoy that scenario.

I still think you can target him in defence. Gloucester often “hide” him and leave Twelvetrees and Atkinson to make the defensive hits. I also think he can get flustered when up against a rush defence - Sarries for example. If you picked him at 10 for England, you’d have to include a goal kicker, Twelvetrees has kicked all season and Cipriani doesn’t kick for goal.
Cardiff Tig
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:25 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by Cardiff Tig »

BFG wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 6:46 pm Cipriani is without doubt the best 10 in England.
Ford is a good player but just doesn't go for it enough.
Cipriani's on pitch leadership and organisational skills are excellent and something England could do with, the ability to adapt on the pitch when plan A or plan B isn't working is something that they have struggled with and also something that Tigers could've done with this season.
He should've been playing regularly for England along with Dan Robson and Alex Goode, absolutely no doubt about it.
I'd also find room in the squad for Lozowski, and Barritt who is solid as a rock and miles ahead of Te'o.
Would you honestly pick Cipriani to start an international ahead of Farrel? To me it's similar to the Youngs/Care situation - everyone was clamouring for Care to be picked ahead of Youngs, and then when Youngs was injured and Care had to manage a game from the start his shortcomings were highlighted. And he was soon after moved away from the squad! You say Ford doesn't go for it enough, but you can't do that at international level either - that's why Finn Russell isn't held in the same regard as Farrell and Sexton, even though he can have a blinder every now and again.

Also, Cipriani behind a weaker pack is not the same player. HIs form at Sale wasn't as good as Ford's form behind the worst Tigers pack in history IMO.

All this is just my opinion though, I still think he is an excellent player. And I would happily have him in the Tigers colours!! He has played very well for Gloucester and deserves to be in the WC squad as well as Ford.
BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3347
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by BFG »

Cardiff Tig wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 8:00 am
BFG wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 6:46 pm Cipriani is without doubt the best 10 in England.
Ford is a good player but just doesn't go for it enough.
Cipriani's on pitch leadership and organisational skills are excellent and something England could do with, the ability to adapt on the pitch when plan A or plan B isn't working is something that they have struggled with and also something that Tigers could've done with this season.
He should've been playing regularly for England along with Dan Robson and Alex Goode, absolutely no doubt about it.
I'd also find room in the squad for Lozowski, and Barritt who is solid as a rock and miles ahead of Te'o.
Would you honestly pick Cipriani to start an international ahead of Farrel? To me it's similar to the Youngs/Care situation - everyone was clamouring for Care to be picked ahead of Youngs, and then when Youngs was injured and Care had to manage a game from the start his shortcomings were highlighted. And he was soon after moved away from the squad! You say Ford doesn't go for it enough, but you can't do that at international level either - that's why Finn Russell isn't held in the same regard as Farrell and Sexton, even though he can have a blinder every now and again.

Also, Cipriani behind a weaker pack is not the same player. HIs form at Sale wasn't as good as Ford's form behind the worst Tigers pack in history IMO.

All this is just my opinion though, I still think he is an excellent player. And I would happily have him in the Tigers colours!! He has played very well for Gloucester and deserves to be in the WC squad as well as Ford.
I wouldn't automatically pick Cipriani ahead of Farrell but I do think that Farrell has had more than his chance and importantly it creates genuine competition for places.
I don't like watching Ford in Farrell's shadow, almost having to fit in rather than expressing his talent to the full.
We aren't seeing the best (and potentially worst) of these players by separating them without any real foundation.
They are all good players but I do value Cipriani's ambition and his organisational leadership which has been overly judged as arrogance simply because it has suited to do so to keep the status quo in the squad.
To be honest I think a player does need belief bordering on arrogance to be a proper on pitch leader, not poor mannered but a strong will, just in my opinion.
Dangerous4
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:15 pm
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks.

Re: Cipriani

Post by Dangerous4 »

JP14 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:15 pm I've done a Team of the Season... Part 1: The Front Five is out now

https://youtu.be/xh4fHtRJQ_w
Personally I would take Brown, but I think there is a good chance of him not being on the plane.
Dangerous4
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:15 pm
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks.

Re: Cipriani

Post by Dangerous4 »

Scott1 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:56 pm Fantastic post Tig! The sign of a very good player to me, especially at 10,is one who can still function with a beaten pack and Ford has done that. What would Cips have been like behind ours this season?

Struggling I think.
newport tiger
Top Cat
Top Cat
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:06 pm
Location: Newport

Re: Cipriani

Post by newport tiger »

BFG wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 6:46 pm Cipriani is without doubt the best 10 in England.
Ford is a good player but just doesn't go for it enough.
Cipriani's on pitch leadership and organisational skills are excellent and something England could do with, the ability to adapt on the pitch when plan A or plan B isn't working is something that they have struggled with and also something that Tigers could've done with this season.
He should've been playing regularly for England along with Dan Robson and Alex Goode, absolutely no doubt about it.
I'd also find room in the squad for Lozowski, and Barritt who is solid as a rock and miles ahead of Te'o.
I totally agree with your comments BFG, there are too many people on here who put Ford above Cips purely on Tigers bias. Ford is without doubt an outstanding 10 and i'm sure that without him we would be in the championship next year but Cipriani is on another level. He has been outstanding ever since he came back to this country and joined Sale, he has proved that he can play alongside various scrum halves and backlines. It should also be noted that he chose Glaws over a lucrative move to France out of loyalty to England a loyalty that has not been re-payed by Eddie.

I suggest that after some of his 6N performances it should be Farrell who is sweating about being included in the squad rather than Ford or Cips.
Mark62
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4168
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:16 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by Mark62 »

newport tiger wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 10:30 am
BFG wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 6:46 pm Cipriani is without doubt the best 10 in England.
Ford is a good player but just doesn't go for it enough.
Cipriani's on pitch leadership and organisational skills are excellent and something England could do with, the ability to adapt on the pitch when plan A or plan B isn't working is something that they have struggled with and also something that Tigers could've done with this season.
He should've been playing regularly for England along with Dan Robson and Alex Goode, absolutely no doubt about it.
I'd also find room in the squad for Lozowski, and Barritt who is solid as a rock and miles ahead of Te'o.
I totally agree with your comments BFG, there are too many people on here who put Ford above Cips purely on Tigers bias. Ford is without doubt an outstanding 10 and i'm sure that without him we would be in the championship next year but Cipriani is on another level. He has been outstanding ever since he came back to this country and joined Sale, he has proved that he can play alongside various scrum halves and backlines. It should also be noted that he chose Glaws over a lucrative move to France out of loyalty to England a loyalty that has not been re-payed by Eddie.

I suggest that after some of his 6N performances it should be Farrell who is sweating about being included in the squad rather than Ford or Cips.
I think people are right to question his ability to do what he does behind a pack going backwards. He was woeful against Worcester and was replaced because of it.
That being said any current English pack should get at least 50% ball.

Like it or not Farrell will get picked but I believe his best position is 12, with Ford or cipriani at 10. Don’t think jones will see it this way though.
Will be interesting to see who plays against the Barbarians a week tomorrow
Mark62
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4168
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:16 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by Mark62 »

As if prove a point not that effective against Saracens suffocating defence and arguably 2 of his mistakes indirectly led to Saracens scores.
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16783
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by Scott1 »

I think F and F works but not with Slade at 13,too many cooks.
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3347
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by BFG »

I think the semi-final today has shown that the rest of the team and the tactics are just as important as who plays at fly half, neither of which have been that impressive today.
Farrell not knowing what to do and hoofing the ball to nowhere in his own half on 42 minutes and getting the team marched back ten metres earlier kind of makes me think that he is a benefactor of playing in a really great team.
sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7055
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: Cipriani

Post by sam16111986 »

Scott1 wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 2:32 pm I think F and F works but not with Slade at 13,too many cooks.
Agreed. When we saw that in the 6N I really felt for Ford at 10. The opposition midfield could fly up and cut off the wide option safe in the knowledge Ford had limited carrying options in midfield.
BFG wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 3:03 pm I think the semi-final today has shown that the rest of the team and the tactics are just as important as who plays at fly half, neither of which have been that impressive today.
Farrell not knowing what to do and hoofing the ball to nowhere in his own half on 42 minutes and getting the team marched back ten metres earlier kind of makes me think that he is a benefactor of playing in a really great team.
Farrell has a beast of a pack, a back three that make any slightly contestable kick look excellent and a pair of very astute tactical scrum halfs. If that's not an armchair ride for a flyhalf I don't know what is.

Cipriani blows hot and cold. This season it's mainly been hot but today we've not seen much of the magic and he hasn't controlled the game.
BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3347
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Cipriani

Post by BFG »

They all blow hot and cold Sam.
Farrell has the least number of excuse's for doing so.
Post Reply