Geordie up before the beak...three week ban!

[RichieB]

Or Sean Davey masks with oversize glasses.

[1989Tiger]

Sam, I totally agree with your comments.

Murphy was stupid, should have known better and been more disciplined. He has done the club no favours at all, and frustration is no excuse. Players (including he himself) and officials have all shown themselves to be less than competent on occasion, and swearing and berating them is not a successful approach to improving their judgement.

Murphy is supposed to demonstrate leadership qualities, both on and off the pitch. He didn’t on this occasion and he has to bear the consequences.

I am looking forward to reading his letter of apology.

Do you know what was actually said? How do you know exactly swore?

I’m asking as I haven’t seen anything about what was said.

[BigDan50]

I had a look at the Bath forum and Gary Gold has made some remarks about Mike Ford getting in at the back of Murphy, some other posters quoting that when Murphy is serving his ban Tigers will get some quality coaching until he returns. How the mighty have fallen

[1989Tiger]

I had a look at the Bath forum and Gary Gold has made some remarks about Mike Ford getting in at the back of Murphy, some other posters quoting that when Murphy is serving his ban Tigers will get some quality coaching until he returns. How the mighty have fallen

Also, there was a time when everyone involved with Tigers and I include supporters in that, didn’t care what others said about us.

[Cardiff Tig]

Sam, I totally agree with your comments.

Murphy was stupid, should have known better and been more disciplined. He has done the club no favours at all, and frustration is no excuse. Players (including he himself) and officials have all shown themselves to be less than competent on occasion, and swearing and berating them is not a successful approach to improving their judgement.

Murphy is supposed to demonstrate leadership qualities, both on and off the pitch. He didn’t on this occasion and he has to bear the consequences.

I am looking forward to reading his letter of apology.

Do you know what was actually said? How do you know exactly swore?

I’m asking as I haven’t seen anything about what was said.

It doesn't matter what GM said.

There is no excuse to verbally abuse match officials in any form no matter how poorly they perform. Just as there is no excuse for fans to verbally abuse players no matter how poorly they perform either.

In every sport, the referee's decision is final, and it's unacceptable to give them any sort of abuse. There are official channels for complaints to be made. Rugby wouldn't exist without them, and decisions even out over 22 matches.

[1989Tiger]

Sam, I totally agree with your comments.

Murphy was stupid, should have known better and been more disciplined. He has done the club no favours at all, and frustration is no excuse. Players (including he himself) and officials have all shown themselves to be less than competent on occasion, and swearing and berating them is not a successful approach to improving their judgement.

Murphy is supposed to demonstrate leadership qualities, both on and off the pitch. He didn’t on this occasion and he has to bear the consequences.

I am looking forward to reading his letter of apology.

Do you know what was actually said? How do you know exactly swore?

I’m asking as I haven’t seen anything about what was said.

It doesn't matter what GM said.

There is no excuse to verbally abuse match officials in any form no matter how poorly they perform. Just as there is no excuse for fans to verbally abuse players no matter how poorly they perform either.

In every sport, the referee's decision is final, and it's unacceptable to give them any sort of abuse. There are official channels for complaints to be made. Rugby wouldn't exist without them, and decisions even out over 22 matches.

It does to me.

Murphy might have said “Sir, you were awful today”.

This is the same as everyone every week talking about how bad players and Murphy are.

The referees decision is always final, I agree but it doesn’t mean it’s right and in the Bath game, there were way too many wrong ones.

[Tigerbeat]

Nowhere has it been stated that he swore at the official and only those that were present will know. You can abuse an official with anger and rage without swearing or make insinuating comments. Whatever was said has been included in the match report and a disciplinary hearing was set up.
Murphy has admitted the charges and must accept the punishment. The decisions made by the officials may not have been correct or the manner in which they were dealt with, but there are official channels to be used to communicate these issues with the Referees.
Without referees, games would not go ahead. Who would want to be a referee in todays game with all the eyes on them. They seem to use TMO, sometimes instigated by the TMO or ARs, to ensure that they arrive at the correct decisions. Without the TMO I am sure that more mistakes would go by and they would just be further lambasted for their apparent incompetence.

[BFG]

Nowhere has it been stated that he swore at the official and only those that were present will know. You can abuse an official with anger and rage without swearing or make insinuating comments. Whatever was said has been included in the match report and a disciplinary hearing was set up.
Murphy has admitted the charges and must accept the punishment. The decisions made by the officials may not have been correct or the manner in which they were dealt with, but there are official channels to be used to communicate these issues with the Referees.
Without referees, games would not go ahead. Who would want to be a referee in todays game with all the eyes on them. They seem to use TMO, sometimes instigated by the TMO or ARs, to ensure that they arrive at the correct decisions. Without the TMO I am sure that more mistakes would go by and they would just be further lambasted for their apparent incompetence.

In principle I agree with you, but the TMO has brought added complications which do need dealing with.
One example is when a player goes over for a try now a mass of players dive on top to obstruct all camera angles, I know for a fact that players are told to do it and now we can't even see clearly one of the original useful reasons for the TMO in the grounding of the ball.

[RichieB]

Whether or not GM swore isn't the point, whatever he said seems to have been done in an inflammatory manner otherwise he wouldn't be up before the beak. There are 2 issues:
1) what consequences are there to deal with poor officiating - Sir, TMO, line person or whoever
2) those in a position of responsibility, professional and well-paid leaders, should know better. Whilst it might be understandable in the heat of the moment, GM has to be able to find a smarter way to deal with it. Have someone else to do the talking, vent on someone else - not an official.

At the time of the multiple poor decisions against Bath, I personally concluded that there were only 2 probable conclusions - the officials were either corrupt or incompetent and I was pretty angry at the time. By the time the full-time whistle had been blown, I had cooled down sufficiently to have my 'chimp' under control.

[Scott1]

Nowhere has it been stated that he swore at the official and only those that were present will know. You can abuse an official with anger and rage without swearing or make insinuating comments. Whatever was said has been included in the match report and a disciplinary hearing was set up.
Murphy has admitted the charges and must accept the punishment. The decisions made by the officials may not have been correct or the manner in which they were dealt with, but there are official channels to be used to communicate these issues with the Referees.
Without referees, games would not go ahead. Who would want to be a referee in todays game with all the eyes on them. They seem to use TMO, sometimes instigated by the TMO or ARs, to ensure that they arrive at the correct decisions. Without the TMO I am sure that more mistakes would go by and they would just be further lambasted for their apparent incompetence.

In principle I agree with you, but the TMO has brought added complications which do need dealing with.
One example is when a player goes over for a try now a mass of players dive on top to obstruct all camera angles, I know for a fact that players are told to do it and now we can't even see clearly one of the original useful reasons for the TMO in the grounding of the ball.

Well if that's the case then the refs will have to wise up to it and ask the TMO "try yes or no?" then they will soon stop doing it when try after try is not given!

[BFG]

Wise up, chance would be a fine thing!

[Crofty]

There was a time when Tigers were the most hard nosed, pragmatic club / team in the league. All that mattered was finding a way to be in the game in the last ten minutes and then managing those final ten minutes more effectively than the opposition. Note 'the hand of Back'.

Now we regularly concede 20+ points in the first 30 minutes of games, have marquee players leave the club before the season ends, leak points throughout games, run the ball from our own 5 metre line in the first five minutes of the second half against an Ulster team in the Heineken Cup when leading by three points- and concede points as a consequence, and have a Head Coach go on record as saying he is happy with his third rate coaching team.

Now we justify the temper tantrum of our Head Coach in a meaningless match.

The big picture for the Head Coach (irrespective of the quality of refereeing) should have been to ensure that we have the best possible start to the forthcoming season. The fact that he couldn't control himself is yet further proof that he is out of his depth. The fact that he obviously doesn't think it is particularly important whether or not he is there to coach the team at the start of a new season, says it all.

Our Head Coach is not paid to launch a self-indulgent one man campaign against poor standards of refereeing. He lost, and was always going to lose.

I wonder what Murphy will say to Callum Green next season when he (Green) abuses the referee in the final minute of the game (when we are leading by one point) gets sent off and gives away a kickable penalty on our 22m.

The points swing if CMK and the TMO had got the decisions right was 17 or 19 dependent on the conversion of our try that was wrongly chalked off. Are you honestly of the opinion that any team in the top half of the league (our minimum aspiration, surely) can afford a 17 point handicap when playing another top half team and that it's purely down to utterly sub standard coaching that we could only cover 16 points of it?

Let's assume / agree the refereeing was awful. Where has Murphy's temper tantrum got us? Our Head Coach, with lots of new players to blend into a team, may be unable to coach/ attend matches in the first three weeks of a season that needs to start well. It is pointless, and self-indulgent to do what he did. As evidenced by the outcome.

Last season we fired the coach after the first game and got a player sent off in the second or third. I thought it couldn't get worse. This season we are a man down before the season even starts. It is about being pragmatic and single minded, and resisting the temptation to have a 'hissy fit'. We all just want Tigers to win.

To answer your question directly (I note you didn't respond to my Callum Green question). I do think the reason we conceded more points than any other team in the premiership was down to very poor coaching rather than the quality of refereeing. The 40+s by Worcester & Bristol come jarringly into memory, and the defensive comedy show against Bristol at home.

I think the fact that the Head Coach was happy to be quoted in the Mercury saying that next season there won't be any more 'running into brick walls, next season' (he actually said it), is indicative of the fact that the coaching has been very poor. The fact we felt the need to 'bring in' Mike Ford for the final few games, is indicative of the fact that the coaching wasn't good enough. If it had been, they wouldn't have needed him. Which other clubs rushed 'consultant coaches' into their ranks for the final games of the season? Any?

So, to avoid doubt. In my opinion the coaching is really poor. I think the actions of the club (outlined above) prove that to be the case. Nonetheless, I think we have to stick with GM, because to fire yet another coach after one season would mean we lose what little credibility we have left with other talented coaches. He should be supported by building a better team around him. Then we cross our fingers and pray.

None of which means that I think the quality of refereeing is adequate. It isn't.

That wasn't my question, my question was specific to the match about which Murphy was vexed. As for your Callum Green question all I can say is can I have this week's lottery numbers, being as you can see the future. Also, it seems a little odd juxtaposed to your veneration of the hand of Back, if he did that in a game today TMO would have sir blowing his whistle in a split second, conceding the penalty and likely the game.

You also suggest that his having a go at the ref (or TMO, or not addressing them with a sufficiently supine posture, I've not actually yet managed to find an account of what he actually did or said that was so bad) means he thinks that his presence is unimportant however you also characterise it as a hissy fit, suggesting an unthinking action.

Look, I get it, the coaching this season as a whole has been unacceptably poor (although, I note, not so unacceptable to you that you want him replaced), but the team's performance in the game against Bath was better than most games this year, and good enough to win but for a TMO of questionable fairness, given that he is both human and under a lot of pressure over results (basically to the ignorance of performance) I can understand his frustration boiling over.

[fentiger]

Here's a link to the report:
https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Documen ... nglish.pdf

Obviously Geordie used 'inappropriate' language, no condoning that. However, was there really any need to dob him in?

[Skin_and_Muscle]

The bit that got me was the line about the judicial officer having regard to the fact that 'there was no direct impugning of the TMO's integrity' in mitigation.

After all, that's much worse than intimating there is a structural problem with cheating in refereeing.

[strawclearer]

Given that Geordan was guilty of the following, I rather think he got off lightly...

Geordan Murphy of Leicester Tigers verbally abused the Match Official
Sean Davey by describing him as “a :censored: :censored: referee” and “a :censored: idiot”
or words to that effect.

Geordan Murphy of Leicester Tigers failed to respect the authority of
the Match Officials by stating that a particular decision in the match was
“endemic of cheating in refereeing” or words to that effect.