All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Post Reply
newport tiger
Top Cat
Top Cat
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:06 pm
Location: Newport

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by newport tiger » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:27 pm

kpj tiger wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:57 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:14 pm
Hasn't NONAME claimed already that GM is going upstairs and a new HC is coming in after the RWC?
To my mind that is the best way forwards, I'm a self confessed "happy clapper" but I'm struggling to see any of the innovation or spark I thought GM might have brought to the coaching group. That said I think having read what some of the incoming players have said and what the current crop of players are saying I think GM has a vision of where and how he wants the club to be and I think he should be given more time to move towards it in a DOR role with somebody coming in as HC (not Mike Ford).

As for the other coaches I'm not a fan of calling for people to be sacked but I feel like its fair to say Blake & Bakewell haven't exactly had the impact we wanted, Boris must be kept at all costs and I think Allen and Deacon have the potential to become quality coaches.

The only other viable option IMO is a complete clearout and starting fresh with a new coaching team and DOR (Perfect opportunity to give Ben Ryan a go) but I can't see that happening at all, especially before next season.
Why on earth would anyone want to promote GM to DOR, he has just presided over the worst season in the clubs history? Yes he was a brilliant player but brilliant players don't always make great coaches, he was thrown in at the deep-end and shouldn't have been given the job permanently.

I don't understand how so many posts on here are anti Mike Ford who has the experience of taking a team to the playoff final and yet seem to support GM who has overseen this seasons disaster.

Tomvarndell
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:36 pm

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by Tomvarndell » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:53 pm

Surely two more defeats this season and we get rid of Murphy. The man himself will walk anyway if he’s got enough about him. I can’t see how anyone can really support him after the downward spiral the season will have taken if we have two more beatings. I feel sorry for the man but this is top level club sport and he looks totally out of his depth.

kend
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 12:02 pm
Location: Exiled in London

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by kend » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:56 pm

FrontRowUnionMember wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:14 am
The problem with reacting after the season finishes, is the recruitment appears largely in place for next season, meaning if someone new is to come in, they inherit somebody else’s squad choices.

I can see the theory with bringing in Tigers old boys, to restore some of the previously feared Tigers never say die ethos, understanding what it means to represent the club, and the and the expectations that go with that. However, there comes a point where a fresh approach may be more beneficial.

Interestingly I watched the academy documentary, and in the first game of the season Tigers won by a pretty convincing scoreline, but Matt Smith comments it’s not acceptable. The scoreline flatters, but the performance was not at the level he expects of Tigers players. Smith comments that the players are wearing club colours so will be judged as Tigers, being young makes no difference. I believe that’s the ethos we are trying to rebuild.

Looking at the current coaching setup, are they making headway, I’d say not.
Boris has got the scrum firing well, undeniable.
Bakewell hasn’t got the pack functioning, too weak in the loose.
Murphy hasn’t inspired any cutting edge in attack. You could argue the forwards inability to deliver impacts what the backs can do, but I’m just not seeing any glimpses of attacking flair.
Defensively we look fragile, so Blake has not made any difference. Even the basics of tackling appear missing in some, maybe Blake can’t be totally blamed at this late stage.
Is the squad fit enough, because there have been too many late losses.

You can see the improvement made by the teams who have changed head coaches / DoR’s over the last season or so. Gloucester have undergone a clear shift in style of play, likewise Bristol and Quins. Saints are now starting to shown signs that Boyd’s tactics are taking shape.
We don’t have that clear identity showing through. We seem very much to be playing through the phases on the hope that a moment of individual skill will open defences up, be that Ford threading a pass, Manu breaking a tackle, or May getting on the outside. There seems little to no clear gameplan or structure. If I could see an underlying vision of how we want to play, but perhaps the players aren’t quite delivering, then I’d hope that with the right recruiting that could be fixed, but it just appears without base structure, it’ll be more of the same.

Is the best option a clean sweep of coaching setup, a new DoR who can appoint his own coaches? Or retain Murphy as head coach with an experienced DoR to help, or as DoR with a top head coach? Who’s available? Whoever it is, will they be able to make the squad (as it is shaping up) work to their ideology?
The question this doesn't address is how could Murphy (or anyone else for that matter) craft 'a clear identity' when he is appointed one game into the season following the sacking of the incumbent? The players aren't necessarily the ones he would have recruited for the game he hopes to play. They have been engaged in crisis management, which gives little opportunity for strategy.

The core problem is a playing group shaped by seasons of coaching turmoil. Layer in injuries and pressure and you have the performances Tigers are producing. Flair doesn't happen by accident, it is a process of building a team that can give it's flair players the confidence to use their ability. There is a lack of confidence all over the field. If there were a simple coaching solution a coach as experienced as Ford would already have it sorted.

The question of whether Murphy should continue isn't about this season. It is if he has a credible and coherent plan for next season and beyond. And whether that is a fit for whatever it is that the BoD/rugby committee think Tigers direction should be and are willing to invest in (this where part of the issue lies IMHO).

IMHO this is more than a one season programme. Short term; keep Tigers in the league. Medium term; put performances together that show how they want to play and can attract the right recuits. Long term; build a team to challenge for top 2.

kpj tiger
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1988
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: Stoney Stanton

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by kpj tiger » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:00 pm

newport tiger wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:27 pm
kpj tiger wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:57 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:14 pm
Hasn't NONAME claimed already that GM is going upstairs and a new HC is coming in after the RWC?
To my mind that is the best way forwards, I'm a self confessed "happy clapper" but I'm struggling to see any of the innovation or spark I thought GM might have brought to the coaching group. That said I think having read what some of the incoming players have said and what the current crop of players are saying I think GM has a vision of where and how he wants the club to be and I think he should be given more time to move towards it in a DOR role with somebody coming in as HC (not Mike Ford).

As for the other coaches I'm not a fan of calling for people to be sacked but I feel like its fair to say Blake & Bakewell haven't exactly had the impact we wanted, Boris must be kept at all costs and I think Allen and Deacon have the potential to become quality coaches.

The only other viable option IMO is a complete clearout and starting fresh with a new coaching team and DOR (Perfect opportunity to give Ben Ryan a go) but I can't see that happening at all, especially before next season.
Why on earth would anyone want to promote GM to DOR, he has just presided over the worst season in the clubs history? Yes he was a brilliant player but brilliant players don't always make great coaches, he was thrown in at the deep-end and shouldn't have been given the job permanently.

I don't understand how so many posts on here are anti Mike Ford who has the experience of taking a team to the playoff final and yet seem to support GM who has overseen this seasons disaster.
I have no doubt Mike Ford is a capable coach, I just don't trust his man management skills.

As for GM I think another sacking of a head coach is the last thing we need right now, it just adds to the toxic environment that seems to be at Tigers currently.

If anybody can come up with a viable coaching setup that would actually be available and would improve upon what we have then I'd be interested to hear it

TigerCam
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3619
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:41 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by TigerCam » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:22 pm

G.K wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:40 am
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:56 pm
So Murphy’s win rate is now less than 30%. MOC was sacked at 50% and looking at things as a whole, we probably played better rugby under him than we are now.

Ex-Tigers players or not, for me it doesn’t matter, what matters is that the coaching team is the right one which right now it isn’t. I’d rather have the Bristol and Worcester coaching teams than ours, if we did I’d imagine we’d comfortably be top 6.

I feel sorry for the players, you can tell they aren’t playing with any structure in attack or gameplan.
Marcel Loffreda's win ratio was higher than both at 55.55% including 2 finals and despite coming in one third of the way through the season so having no pre-season at all. He was fired.

Just saying.
IMO, never given the chance - just stabbed in the back by the BoD. I believe one of the excuses for getting rid of ML was the 'language problem'? Well, I don't know what language is being used now but the words are either just not getting through or they don't exist in the current coaches vocabulary?

TigerCam
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3619
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:41 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by TigerCam » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:24 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:16 pm
Tigerbeat wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:52 pm
LE18 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:50 pm
Jed Glynn gone or hiding? I heard he had gone?
Definitely not hiding as he was in the stands yesterday.
Certainly not hiding - talking very positively before the game.
Even I can talk positively before the game, doesn't seem to a diddly-squat of good tho' does it?

newport tiger
Top Cat
Top Cat
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:06 pm
Location: Newport

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by newport tiger » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:33 pm

kpj tiger wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:00 pm
newport tiger wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:27 pm
kpj tiger wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:57 pm


To my mind that is the best way forwards, I'm a self confessed "happy clapper" but I'm struggling to see any of the innovation or spark I thought GM might have brought to the coaching group. That said I think having read what some of the incoming players have said and what the current crop of players are saying I think GM has a vision of where and how he wants the club to be and I think he should be given more time to move towards it in a DOR role with somebody coming in as HC (not Mike Ford).

As for the other coaches I'm not a fan of calling for people to be sacked but I feel like its fair to say Blake & Bakewell haven't exactly had the impact we wanted, Boris must be kept at all costs and I think Allen and Deacon have the potential to become quality coaches.

The only other viable option IMO is a complete clearout and starting fresh with a new coaching team and DOR (Perfect opportunity to give Ben Ryan a go) but I can't see that happening at all, especially before next season.
Why on earth would anyone want to promote GM to DOR, he has just presided over the worst season in the clubs history? Yes he was a brilliant player but brilliant players don't always make great coaches, he was thrown in at the deep-end and shouldn't have been given the job permanently.

I don't understand how so many posts on here are anti Mike Ford who has the experience of taking a team to the playoff final and yet seem to support GM who has overseen this seasons disaster.
I have no doubt Mike Ford is a capable coach, I just don't trust his man management skills.

As for GM I think another sacking of a head coach is the last thing we need right now, it just adds to the toxic environment that seems to be at Tigers currently.

If anybody can come up with a viable coaching setup that would actually be available and would improve upon what we have then I'd be interested to hear it
I wouldn't advocate sacking GM but i think it would be reasonable to ask him to step down and be assistant to whoever we bring in, lets be honest he's not going to be inundated with job offers. If he decides to stay on and learn from the experience then in a couple of years who knows! I agree its time to get a DOR who can build a good coaching team around him, it must be seen as a challenge for someone to get the most decorated club in history back to where they belong.

Coleshillad
Top Cat
Top Cat
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:37 pm

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by Coleshillad » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:26 pm

In my humble opinion, sackings and resignations are unnecessary amongst the coaching staff, and a bit of shuffling would be more beneficial. and in the interests of stability. What's needed is a new broom. Mike Ford could fill that role. Doesn't have to be popular, that may be half the problem, but efficient will do, and a bit hard nosed, because changes need to be made in the playing squad. As for coaching staff, they've been given a hard time on here. I'm not convinced all the blame can be laid at their door. They shouldn't need to coach basic skills, but that seems one of the problems on the field. They can coach, advise, brief and prepare the players for a game but they can't play for them. Over the summer, a playing squad needs to be developed. Feathers need to be ruffled, and the club needs someone who is prepared, and strong enough to do that. I'm not convinced GM can do that at Tigers.

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3817
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Neverland

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by JP14 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:37 pm

Anyone remember Murphy’s biography, gave an interesting insight into why he felt Loffreda left.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Dangerous4
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 934
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:15 pm
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks.

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by Dangerous4 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:57 pm

The atmosphere is toxic enough now, but if G.M. is still at the helm next season, it will get a damn sight worse!

Redstripeman
Tiger Cub
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by Redstripeman » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:37 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:57 pm
The atmosphere is toxic enough now, but if G.M. is still at the helm next season, it will get a damn sight worse!

...totally agree!!!
Very strange the recruitment that has taken place for next season and this would be perhaps the direction that GM wants to go. Very worrying, having been dropped into this position after one game, we really should have seen by now some idea of how he wants to play with the relevant structure in place. He has not fulfilled the needs of the club and it is clear for all to see that he lacks the ability to coach or influence the team and I would suggest he should be no where near the playing side and used more in the capacity as club ambassador.
We seek to find a position for him after all he has done in his playing days, extremely well liked and respected but has come up short in all coaching positions he has had and the call for him as DoR is a road which we should not be looking to go down but with the incumbent Board members it could be yet another cheap and shortsighted decision.
A complete overhaul of the coaching staff with new Head Coach bringing in his own people, Blake and Bakewell have failed to implement the basics and therefore the termination of their contract should be done at the end of the season.

1989Tiger
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:24 pm

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by 1989Tiger » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:45 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:57 pm
The atmosphere is toxic enough now, but if G.M. is still at the helm next season, it will get a damn sight worse!
Murphy will be at the club next season. Simon Cohen has already said that whatever happens, Murphy will be at the club.

We can't have any more upheaval.

TTRITH
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2845
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Hoddesdon
Contact:

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by TTRITH » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:33 pm

1989Tiger wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:45 pm
Dangerous4 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:57 pm
The atmosphere is toxic enough now, but if G.M. is still at the helm next season, it will get a damn sight worse!
Murphy will be at the club next season. Simon Cohen has already said that whatever happens, Murphy will be at the club.

We can't have any more upheaval.
I love Geordan, I do, but an 11th place finish is not a good place to be. Bakewell and Blake need to go IMO, have contributed nothing and we cant tackle and our forwards cant do the basics... it's not a good look.

Geordan is also too loyal to Brett. Constantly we're told that the defensive systems arent a problem, they :censored: well are!

The board are desperately hoping Geordan works but he's not a coach. As skills coach our squads ability to execute simple things dwindled, as backs coach we looked blunt and as head coach we look poorly coach, with little to no drawn out thinking. We are a poor side.

If Geordan is to be kept it has to be as DoR IMO. The DoR doesnt coach but decides the tactics, style etc. It is then down to the head coach to implement that through coaching.

I have a sneaky feeling the new head coach will be Graham Rowntree. Experienced coach, plus always gets a lot of credit for his coaching ability. The more I think about it, the more I like the thought of Mike Catt as backs and attack coach, again well thought of Coach.
Richard Burnett
:axe: :smt100

1989Tiger
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:24 pm

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by 1989Tiger » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:37 pm

TTRITH wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:33 pm
1989Tiger wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:45 pm
Dangerous4 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:57 pm
The atmosphere is toxic enough now, but if G.M. is still at the helm next season, it will get a damn sight worse!
Murphy will be at the club next season. Simon Cohen has already said that whatever happens, Murphy will be at the club.

We can't have any more upheaval.
I love Geordan, I do, but an 11th place finish is not a good place to be. Bakewell and Blake need to go IMO, have contributed nothing and we cant tackle and our forwards cant do the basics... it's not a good look.

Geordan is also too loyal to Brett. Constantly we're told that the defensive systems arent a problem, they :censored: well are!

The board are desperately hoping Geordan works but he's not a coach. As skills coach our squads ability to execute simple things dwindled, as backs coach we looked blunt and as head coach we look poorly coach, with little to no drawn out thinking. We are a poor side.

If Geordan is to be kept it has to be as DoR IMO. The DoR doesnt coach but decides the tactics, style etc. It is then down to the head coach to implement that through coaching.

I have a sneaky feeling the new head coach will be Graham Rowntree. Experienced coach, plus always gets a lot of credit for his coaching ability. The more I think about it, the more I like the thought of Mike Catt as backs and attack coach, again well thought of Coach.
Richard Cockerill was the DOR and he coached. I think it depends on what the club expect of you in that job role.

Ian Cant
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 727
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 10:51 am

Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by Ian Cant » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:11 pm

Personally I think a huge problem this season is a lack of fitness in the whole squad. Look at how quickly the Bristol players got to the breakdown and change the point of attack by running fast lines to either side of the rucks or attack. We made 3 excellent line breaks on Saturday but neither resulted in tries as no one followed the line breaker. Then watch other teams ‘ scrum halves race to get the ball away; Sam starts like this but then seems to lose energy and on Saturday there was decent ball from the forwards until they tired. Before we can move forward Tigers need to get back to the time when we knew we would be the fitter team: fatigue also sets in early with us when tackling so we end up falling off tackles and having a very slow defensive line speed. Murphy is intelligent enough to realise this and will hopefully ensure pre season training addresses the issues.
On a coaching front; and some will hate this but Sam Vesty as backs’ coach. Been away, got experience and won’t accept lazy running lines and poor handling skills.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cheltexile, DeadlyDunc, happywomble, Leicestertinytiger and 2 guests