Cohen in the Express.

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sapajo
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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by sapajo » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:24 am

NONAME wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:20 am
Who would have predicted we would have been fighting relegation a month ago.
Blinking obvious given the same repeated naive game plan, horrendous defence and dire performances !
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

Mark62
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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Mark62 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:27 am

Agreed anything that happened before Murphy appointment was just papering over the cracks.
The slide happened during Cockerill time, it may not have been down to him, but it started during that time.

You rebuild things from the bottom up, which is what the current coaching team appear to be trying to do.

Next season who knows, we are not in 1 season going to draw level with Saracens and Exeter, and possibly Gloucester, but the rest of the clubs are easily with in reach, anyone who watched last nights dirge can confirm that

Scott1
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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Scott1 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:28 am

Murphy has proved to be much worse than MoC with virtually the same players! But like I said,no preseason,needs his own players,has both for the next season. I'm not expecting a GP final but we can't let our expectations be too low. A full season coupled with this one is enough for me,every GP team is in constant transition,some more than others but it's the nature of the beast.

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Mark62 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:34 am

Scott1 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:28 am
Murphy has proved to be much worse than MoC with virtually the same players! But like I said,no preseason,needs his own players,has both for the next season. I'm not expecting a GP final but we can't let our expectations be too low. A full season coupled with this one is enough for me,every GP team is in constant transition,some more than others but it's the nature of the beast.
How do we know MOC would have faired any different or worse this season, it is quite possible had he stayed the club would be looking forward to a trip to Ampthill next season.

Yes we need expectations but let’s keep them realistic, the days of we are Leicester we will be fine, clubs have caught us up and in some cases overtaken us, by fair means or foul

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by sam16111986 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:40 am

Scott1 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:28 am
Murphy has proved to be much worse than MoC with virtually the same players! But like I said,no preseason,needs his own players,has both for the next season. I'm not expecting a GP final but we can't let our expectations be too low. A full season coupled with this one is enough for me,every GP team is in constant transition,some more than others but it's the nature of the beast.
This is MOC's mess. Geordie is just cleaning up after him best he can. MOC arrived back late for pre season, oversaw a lackluster fitness regime, implemented no defence or attacking structure and quite frankly was in the job six months too long.

Geordan needed experienced coaching support a lot earlier and that was obvious to pretty much everybody. It's taken a crisis for the board to agree and get the cheque book out.

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Scott1 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:44 am

This is MoC and the boards mess. I still think GM and co havnt been good enough this season,not with the players we have but it's done now. That's my opinion,others differ. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong next season but I think he's out of his depth sadly. Much rather he go upstairs and we get our Ackerman in.

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Mark62 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:59 am

Scott1 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:44 am
This is MoC and the boards mess. I still think GM and co havnt been good enough this season,not with the players we have but it's done now. That's my opinion,others differ. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong next season but I think he's out of his depth sadly. Much rather he go upstairs and we get our Ackerman in.
So to solve the problems bought about by the high turnover of coaching staff, you want to bring another coach in, rather than let a guy who’s heart and soul is in the job, carry on while being advised by more experienced associates :smt017 :smt017

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Scott1 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:06 am

So what if his heart and soul is in it,mine would be if I was I charge! sorry but that's not enough if he isn't up to the task and what he's shown so far in the top role and the many years of "skills" coaching before that shows he isn't! DOR suits him far more imo,it's not a headscratcher at all Mark it's a very good idea imo. Whether that's Mike or another head coach.

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:08 am

sapajo wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:24 am
NONAME wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:20 am
Who would have predicted we would have been fighting relegation a month ago.
Blinking obvious given the same repeated naive game plan, horrendous defence and dire performances !
Think you misunderstood...At the beginning of the season would you have thought that.

Mark62
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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Mark62 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:10 am

Scott1 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:06 am
So what if his heart and soul is in it,mine would be if I was I charge! sorry but that's not enough if he isn't up to the task and what he's shown so far in the top role and the many years of "skills" coaching before that shows he isn't! DOR suits him far more imo,it's not a headscratcher at all Mark it's a very good idea imo. Whether that's Mike or another head coach.
Well you’re entitled to your opinion, others may differ.
As you have such a handle on the situation can you please explain what attributes Geordan has that make him more suited to a DOR role rather than head coach, because I can’t quite see why years as a skills coach would qualify him for that job.

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Scott1 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:23 am

I won't answer Mark,I'll leave it there. You're getting a tad sharp,it's a discussion that seems to be extreme at both ends of the scale and very divisive,I'm gonna concentrate on today's game.

Mark62
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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Mark62 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:27 am

Scott1 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:23 am
I won't answer Mark,I'll leave it there. You're getting a tad sharp,it's a discussion that seems to be extreme at both ends of the scale and very divisive,I'm gonna concentrate on today's game.
Not sure that’s your place, I assume you must be a school teacher or work in H R.
It is a genuine question, why do you feel he suited for one and not the other, what attributes does he have that make that difference in your opinion

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by Traveller » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:27 am

NONAME wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:43 am
Simon Cohen's contribution to the Tigers has been immense. He has worked tirelessly to balance the books and secure the future for the club whilst considerably improving the stadium. Unlike other clubs that have a 'Sugar Daddy' or ignore the salary cap Mr Cohen has on a restricted budget achieved much but ultimately he does not have the final word on who to sign be it players or coaches.

For those who know Simon they will confirm he speaks a lot of sense and has a good knowledge of Rugby and understands the dynamics of the team. He has suffered a lot of unfair criticism and abuse, so much so his wife no longer attends matches which is a terrible reflection on the club.

I hope Simon is not made the fall guy for the awful mess we find ourselves in. It was not of his making. I also hope that supporters realise its not a god given gift that we finish Top 4 every season and to expect to, is to be ignorant to the current state of the premiership. A very clever and well respected ex-player said to me its a 5 year rebuilding process so we will have to get use to mid table and hope for Top 4.
Beyond belief. Simon Cohen is CEO. The highest-ranking executive in a company. The buck stops with him.

Since he was appointed the club has been on the slide, culminating with this years relegation dance. 2018-2019 hasn’t come as a shock. It’s been the direction of travel for four / five years.

Any effective CEO would say a) It's my fault and resign, or say b) its not my fault, the current structure / processes are no longer fit for purpose, and so I cannot perform my CEO role effectively unless they change: and when they don't change, resign. But Cohen's position is; I can't be an effective CEO, because the structures within the club are no longer fit for purpose, but I will continue , because it means I can no longer be held accountable, and I will remain generously remunerated.

When he was made CEO, he was hardly starting from scratch. Tigers had some brand awareness. Securing two plots of land adjacent to a club’s ground to provide additional income streams, are hardly earth-shattering initiatives. Building a stand with debt? Genius? No. It's the basic work of a CEO.

Forget the on field collapse (which Cohen is so keen to remove himself from - until the team starts winning again). How does the off-pitch match day experience compare to other places such as Harlequins; try buying a pint. What work has gone into shaping the demographic for youngsters? The catering is light years behind. Name one real innovation during his tenure. He had the best supported, most successful club in the history of English club rugby. Tell me about the extraordinary sponsorship deals he's closed. The promotion of the club nationally and internationally in the media.

My experience of our CEO, has been that he is expert at shifting the blame, keen to take credit, slow to take responsibility, and remarkably patronising. I did not appreciate an email exchange lecturing me on the club’s history, and his contribution, as if he was a loyal supporter rather than a very well remunerated employee. His latest foray into the media is predictable and self-referential. The lawyer, shaping the narrative, “it wasn't me guv, I wasn't in the room. I don't make those decisions".

I hasten to add the social media abuse is disgraceful and the abuse of his wife.

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:44 am

Unbelievable...have you not seen the ground improvements. The Hotel deal, new car park and shops planned these are down to Cohen's shrewd management without I may add a bucket full of money.

You are making him the scape goat for other peoples failings. People higher than him have the final say. Without Cohen the club would not have a secure future. Take a look at the latest accounts and then take a look at the other premiership clubs accounts. Take a look at our stadium and then look at Exeter, Bath, etc

As for match day experience I agree we are not the best but nowhere near the worse.

Finally SC office is always open to hear the views of supporters, his presence on the terraces allows him to listen to many views, good and bad so I suggest rather than 'slag' the guy off go and meet him and discuss the issues. Don't think many CEO's would be up for that.

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Re: Cohen in the Express.

Post by kend » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:49 am

The return of Matt as head coach is not an appointment that I personally would have made.
That is a startling thing for a CEO to say, it's a criticism of other board members and the governance of the club. And explicitly distancing himself from the issues. In another business environment I'd say that is a signal that someone is on their way out. Either Cohen himself (so he no longer cares what he says) or someone else who can carry the can!
Unbelievable...have you not seen the ground improvements. The Hotel deal, new car park and shops planned these are down to Cohen's shrewd management without I may add a bucket full of money.
Well yes, no one is criticising Cohen for his ability to improve facilities. The issue is the decision making process that led to 4 coaches in 2 years and a catastrophic decline in the core business; all those facilities would be a bit superfluous in the championship. As CEO he might not have the specialist knowledge to pick a coach, but he has ultimate responsibility for the governance of the business and the process for effective decision making.

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