Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

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kend
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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by kend » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:28 pm

FrontRowUnionMember wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:23 pm
Ultimately I fail to see any discipline, gameplan or structure imparted by this current coaching setup.
Yes, if you want to wear the rose tinted glasses, you may look at the initial declared recruitment plus those rumoured to be following, and hope for a better outcome, but ultimately I’m not seeing any evidence of coaching improvement with the current lot, so how is that going to change.
Look at today, we’ve been turned over by what really is a fairly average looking Bristol side. Man for man, we’re they better calibre players? Or are we that poor collectively.
I see Sarries and Exeter, the current pace setters, and regardless of the starting lineups they field, I see a clear structure and style that surpasses the player selection. With us I don’t see anything like that, it all seems hopeful on individuals to give moments of inspiration.
Four coaches (five if you count Burke) in quick succession and sacking MoC one game into the season is likely to do that to you. The current setup hasn't had a stable base to build from so it's actually hard to judge. We might have been man-for-man better but how often have Toomua and Smith played together?

It's been said before; it took Sarries some while to get to their current position. Didn't happen overnight.

Scott1
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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by Scott1 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:51 pm

Not hard to judge at all imo,no progression and regression in some areas. Different excuses every week!

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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by RagingBull » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:15 pm

Would go with v Quins
1. Gigena
2. Kerr
3. Cole
4. Spencer
5. Kitchener
6. Thompson
7. O'Connor
8. Kalamafoni
9. Harrison
10. Ford
11. May
12. Toomua
13. Smith
14. Blommetjies
15. Veainu

16. Polota-Nau
17. Genge
18. Heyes
19. Wells
20. Fitzgerald
21. White
22. Hardwick
23. Aspland-Robinson/Olowofela

POSTIGER
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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by POSTIGER » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:20 pm

I missed today's game with illness and watched Quins play Exeter instead. Quins were really impressive and hugely unfortunate not to win at Sandy Park. I've no doubt they'll take us to the cleaners. Easiest bonus point they'll gain all season.
I saw Marika Vunibaka play

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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by Traveller » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:53 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:15 pm
Would go with v Quins
1. Gigena
2. Kerr
3. Cole
4. Spencer
5. Kitchener
6. Thompson
7. O'Connor
8. Kalamafoni
9. Harrison
10. Ford
11. May
12. Toomua
13. Smith
14. Blommetjies
15. Veainu

16. Polota-Nau
17. Genge
18. Heyes
19. Wells
20. Fitzgerald
21. White
22. Hardwick
23. Aspland-Robinson/Olowofela
Does it really matter who does and doesn't take the field. The implication is that by selecting a XV they will somehow perform as a collective - a team - who tackle for each other, clear rucks for each other. You get this jist. We know now that just won't happen. There will be some pointless article in the Mercury on Wednesday about 'learning from our mistakes', on Thursday there will be another one along the lines of 'we can't afford to give away soft tries', on Friday there will be a 'looking to battle until the bitter end. Pride in the jersey etc' article. On Friday evening around 10pm this forum will be alive with reports on how we gave away 20 soft points in the first fifteen minutes, Toomua got a yellow card, the line out collapsed, we were slow at the breakdown and got pinged by the Ref, and how the attack is more predictable than Trumps views on Mexicans.

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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by Soggypitch » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:22 pm

JP14 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:34 pm
Soggypitch wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:06 pm
JP14 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:55 pm
In my view, the forwards carried well today especially Kalamafoni and Spencer, but the attack (especially from Toomua) was far too lateral and easily defendable. I thought one of their tries was a forward pass but I was far away in the Crumbie so I can’t say for sure. Personally I don’t think the level of negativity is particularly warranted, Dickson was played like a fiddle by Afoa and Lay. I’m all for former players becoming refs, but the level of bias shown today was not acceptable.
Accusing the ref of bias is pathetic in the extreme and not what I would expect of anyone with decent rugby values.

We played poorly, just like for most of the season, we need a clear out of the players who don't have the ability and/or character to be true Tigers. Then we need to recruit some good replacements, and as Les Cusworth said, get a world class DoR to help Geordie and the other coaches worth keeping (Boris, Brett, Ant and Ford).

I watched Sarries last week and was so impressed with their skill, unrelenting work rate and togetherness. We have a mountain to climb but it is not impossible.
So I can’t accuse the ref of bias, but you can accuse me of not having decent rugby values despite the fact it’s unlikely we have ever met in person? Great!
Yes I can! You can say the ref was dire or any adjective you choose (within reason), that's an opinion, but to say he was biased is not in the spirit of rugby values or common decency. I don't need to meet you to know that!!!!
Soggypitch

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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by NONAME » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:59 am

Yes, GM is to be DOR. Head coach will be announced after the World Cup thats the good news. Bad new Tigers won't get relegated so there will be no real change at the club but expect an underserved token sacrifice.

Players, well what of the Players that went to the board demanding RC to be sacked...these are the same players that are out there producing sub standard performances and are here to pick up the wages at the end of the week. How do you motivate these guys? well you can't, GM has no chance the only option is to show them the door.

Against Bristol we saw probably the worse display of the season. No offence to Bristol but they shouldn't be leaving Welford Road with a win. On paper we are the best team, on the field only 8, 10 and 15 looked the part. Even our set piece failed to dominate at times..

Leadership on the field, well Ford tried to get the players to raise their game but had little effect. Our one true leader was in the stand desperate to play. We need senior players to step up but who in the forwards could step up?

New signings, well the idea we can sign average players and turn them into very good players as Tigers have done in the past is to believe in Santa, it only works if you have an excellent coaching team. We seem to still be looking at the MOC idea of a forward, one who can win the contact area, that big brute. Unfortunately you have to get to the contact area to win it. The game as changed, you still need your BB but forwards need to be fast. They have to defend against the opposition's backs who will exploit any lack of pace. They also need to tackle. Sadly very few of our current team are prepared to put their body on the line and we are top of the table when it comes to missed tackles.

So what next, well if I were a Player reading this I'd be angry and hurt if I had any pride. Prove me wrong go out there and put in a performance that the supporters, those men and women that pay your wages, those supporters that turn up week after week often standing in the rain and cold can be proud of!

drc_007
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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by drc_007 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:07 am

NONAME wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:59 am
So what next, well if I were a Player reading this I'd be angry and hurt if I had any pride. Prove me wrong go out there and put in a performance that the supporters, those men and women that pay your wages, those supporters that turn up week after week often standing in the rain and cold can be proud of!
The problem is you could say this almost every week and there has been little evidence that the players are willing to put in a performance.

JP14
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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by JP14 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:17 am

Soggypitch wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:22 pm
JP14 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:34 pm
Soggypitch wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:06 pm


Accusing the ref of bias is pathetic in the extreme and not what I would expect of anyone with decent rugby values.

We played poorly, just like for most of the season, we need a clear out of the players who don't have the ability and/or character to be true Tigers. Then we need to recruit some good replacements, and as Les Cusworth said, get a world class DoR to help Geordie and the other coaches worth keeping (Boris, Brett, Ant and Ford).

I watched Sarries last week and was so impressed with their skill, unrelenting work rate and togetherness. We have a mountain to climb but it is not impossible.
So I can’t accuse the ref of bias, but you can accuse me of not having decent rugby values despite the fact it’s unlikely we have ever met in person? Great!
Yes I can! You can say the ref was dire or any adjective you choose (within reason), that's an opinion, but to say he was biased is not in the spirit of rugby values or common decency. I don't need to meet you to know that!!!!
To me it’s the same, if it’s not for you then fair enough but because I never said and don’t believe that the ref’s performance affected the result, my comment was an acceptable one to make.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

MikeR
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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by MikeR » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:32 am

To be fair to Bristol - exactly the same side beat Sarries last week - they can't be too bad . Too many on hear go on reputation rather than performance and too many Tigers players are elevated to 'greatness' on the basis of a bright cameo rather than consistently excellent showings .IMO only Ford and May are anywhere near consistently good .

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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by Tigerbeat » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:37 am

Bristol are a good side and have made some good signings and were well prepared for coming up from the Championship. I personally am not surprised by them and they have caused problems for quite a few sides during the season, beating Saracens, Gloucester and running Exeter close along the way.
Respect has to be given to Bristol.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by NONAME » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:38 am

Totally agree, Ford and May are committed but and the sooner we show those players who are not prepared to put a shift in the door, the better.

This problem started when the players went to the board and demanded RC be sacked. The board should have ignored the request and immediately begun looking for replacements. To give the players such power was a huge mistake. No individual is bigger than the club. In the dressing room this caused considerable discontent as not everyone wanted AM to be put in charge. Ultimately AM was shown the door and the farce continued with the appointment of MOC.

The players have never bonded as a team due to the deep divisions that now exist and its noticeable that as new signings are made they tend to be the players putting a shift in. How refreshing to see a 15 attacking the opposition at speed, one of the brighter moments in the Bristol disaster.

So where to next..GM to be made DOR and a World Class Coach to come in.

Louis
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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by Louis » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:07 am

Dangerous4 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:43 pm
Why on earth did we allow Harry Thacker to leave? Huge mistake imo.
I don't know much, but I do know this.

I agree. Hell of a player. I'm of the Neil Back mindset: If you're good enough, you're big enough. And Thacker is more than good enough.

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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by Scuttle » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:10 am

After yesterday I am left wondering if the problem is all in the mind. On balance I thought the score was a fair reflection of the game; I don't think either team played well but neither do I think either team played badly. It was a tight, tense game reflecting the league positions of both teams. The difference between the 2 was defence; Bristol we're up quickly, made their tackles and closed down our space which meant we were pretty lateral in attack. We missed tackles. Otherwise I didn't see much difference. For Tigers I think some are struggling to handle the pressure, whether their own or that of fan expectation, and it is pervading all areas of their play. I also felt there may have been some complacency yesterday, not a conscious "we don't need to try too hard to win this one", but more one brought on by Newcastle losing the night before, something more subtle. I just didn't see the same "up and at them" fizz that we saw against Newcastle. I realise my ideas of pressure and complacency may seem mutually exclusive but I feel the answer lies in their minds somewhere along that continuum. I do think we have some good players not playing to their potential and the good players in good teams are good at playing what is on front of them; that comes from confidence, which is all in the mind.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol - 27th April 2019

Post by 25tiger » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:26 am

Whilst clearly we aren’t playing anywhere near well enough to justify beating anyone on reputation, yesterday was a game that we should have won. I personally felt that during the second half we wasted our opportunities by going for penalties instead of the corner. I know the lineout hasn’t functioned consistently but scoring tries was the only way we were ever going to beat a team that comes to play and wins with 5/7s not 3s like Bristol. Lacking confidence, leadership or just tactical nous? Either way that ended the game for us.

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