Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

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JWM
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by JWM » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:33 pm

BK is not the new Aunt Sally. However, at the time of his appointment to the BoD, and since, I have wondered whether or not this represents a conflict of interest with his day job as a BT pundit and occasional journalist. Wondering this is not to take a pop, nor to fling mud, but a legitimate question that the BoD and he should (not unreasonably) have anticipated. In fact, I would have preempted it by proactively commenting on it from the outset.
Smudge wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:44 pm
So Ben Kay is the new "aunt sally"? Give it a rest. How ridiculous. There is a board of executive directors running the club
Non executive directors have a very small input in any BOD. (I have been one).
It's alright having an opinion on club matters but if you don't know the full facts, (and you don't), for heaven's sake keep it to yourself.
ST in new Clubhouse stand ... sadly, my back's no longer up to standing :-(

Ilsontiger1725
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by Ilsontiger1725 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:50 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:59 pm
There is no doubt about it. Those on the BOD, should have the decency to resign, and accept their abysmal failings. If they don't, we as a club shall very likely go from bad to worse.

Well said, and how right you are R.C. :smt023
As the Chinese say "the fish rots from the head" and at Tigers the head is very much Executive Chairman CBE, Peter Tom. Now it's not just his questionable decision making but his reputation - who on earth would want to come to Tigers as coach or player with his history of sacking, player swaps etc. The problems will continue until he leaves or is pushed (a fitting end)

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:51 pm

mol2 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:40 pm
I'd love to know who had the final say on the appointments of O'Connor, Mauger and Geordie.

Did the senior players influence those decisions?
so would I, but when Simon Cohen passed the buck on RL instead of grilling him like he should Martin Ballard was content to instead talk about how mean the fans have been to SC.

If the CEO is not a key decision maker on who is the Head Coach/DoR then he should not be in the job

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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by tripeandonions » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:16 am

It is easy to form the impression that the directing of the club is via a collection of individuals whose responsibilities and accountability is not clear, and who, if pressed, tend to say "that's not my area". This tendency is always accentuated when the Organisation they are supposed to be directing, experiences failure based on poor individual and past collective decisions. It is a common malaise. This dislocation then spreads to the middle management and then to the workforce, who, perceiving lack of cohesive direction, become disoriented.
But is this actually the case with Leicester Tigers? Or is it just the old, greater scheme of things eteernal cycle catching up with the club, where the club in some ways needs to go through this downswing because it is an inevitability, and in many ways organisations need it, in order to rebuild and emerge again with new people, structures and ways. Have those involved in this downswing merely been in the wrong place, at the wrong time?

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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by Dangerous4 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:35 pm

tripeandonions wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:16 am
It is easy to form the impression that the directing of the club is via a collection of individuals whose responsibilities and accountability is not clear, and who, if pressed, tend to say "that's not my area". This tendency is always accentuated when the Organisation they are supposed to be directing, experiences failure based on poor individual and past collective decisions. It is a common malaise. This dislocation then spreads to the middle management and then to the workforce, who, perceiving lack of cohesive direction, become disoriented.
But is this actually the case with Leicester Tigers? Or is it just the old, greater scheme of things eteernal cycle catching up with the club, where the club in some ways needs to go through this downswing because it is an inevitability, and in many ways organisations need it, in order to rebuild and emerge again with new people, structures and ways. Have those involved in this downswing merely been in the wrong place, at the wrong time?
Good post, but I'm not sure that you are correct. Of course, you could be, but we will never know the real answer.

RothleyTiger56
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by RothleyTiger56 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:57 pm

I’ve not read all the other comments about Ben Kay but it seems to me his position as a Tigers Director is incompatible with his role as a journalist. In particular his BT Sports position but also the Saturday column he writes in The Times. I can’t think of a comparable situation in Rugby. It certainly would not be tolerated by Premier League football clubs or in any other form of business. There is a very clear conflict of interest. Time to choose Ben.

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Accountability

Post by CerysCleopatra » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:56 pm

I'm not normally one for forums but the current situation at Tigers has motivated me to post. I'm a season ticket holder, have been for years and a huge rugby fan.
I'm sure it has already been posted before but when will the board take some accountability and provide supporters with some honesty. This is what upsets me more than anything, the attitude that 'don't worry we're the best club in the country, the fans always turn up' The club is falling apart!! The family ethic has gone. The problems are well documented in all the sports pages, forums and social media but still the club flippantly trots out the excuses and the 'cheery' Facebook posts.
Please can we have some kind of sign that anyone running the club cares about what is happening as much as the supporters do.

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Re: Accountability

Post by ourla » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:13 pm

CerysCleopatra wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:56 pm
Please can we have some kind of sign that anyone running the club cares about what is happening as much as the supporters do.
What precisely are you looking for. Cohen has spoken extensively about our problems, as have others less frequently.
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by Scuttle » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:22 pm

RothleyTiger56 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:57 pm
I’ve not read all the other comments about Ben Kay but it seems to me his position as a Tigers Director is incompatible with his role as a journalist. In particular his BT Sports position but also the Saturday column he writes in The Times. I can’t think of a comparable situation in Rugby. It certainly would not be tolerated by Premier League football clubs or in any other form of business. There is a very clear conflict of interest. Time to choose Ben.
I agree and have previously made the same point on other threads. It is an odd one in terms of conflict of interest but incompatible is probably the best way to describe it as you say. What I feel is most incompatible is how a director of Leicester Tigers can refer to the club as "they did this.. or they did that..." when commenting about Tigers on BT Sport. It is as if he has no links (or interest) with what Tigers are doing. That cannot be right in my view.
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by Smudge » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:00 pm

My point about Ben Kay is that we always have to have someone to blame when things go wrong.
There was clearly a lot wrong with Tigers from way back before he and Rory were directors, even Sir Clive.
The family atmospher at Tigers was real, very much like the one enjoyed by Exeter today. The casting asiside of great Tigers like Moody, (who was then the England captain), in my opinion, started the rot. That a player who loved the club more than his own safety could be ditched in the way he was, sent a message right through the establishment that no matter how good you have been, how much you have cared, you may be dumped, even if you are the current England Captain. That one was was widely seen as down to Cockerill and his poor man management but I have my doubts. The spirit in the club amongst the players was destroyed by that one crass and stupid act and has never recovered. The great "all in together, family spirit drained away like water down a storm drain. We were no longer the Tigers family of greats, just employees of a sports club. I know I have voiced this on here before but if you talk to the players who were around when Lewis was dumped you will get a flavour of how badly it went down. Read some of the accounts in the various books that have published since. The old Tigers spirit is not there now, that is beyond dispute and you can argue change of coaches and poor recruiting all you like. The "they shall not pass", "iron in the blood" that was always our strength has been ditched and by fools who din't really appreciate what we had.
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by BFG » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:10 pm

Smudge wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:00 pm
My point about Ben Kay is that we always have to have someone to blame when things go wrong.
There was clearly a lot wrong with Tigers from way back before he and Rory were directors, even Sir Clive.
The family atmospher at Tigers was real, very much like the one enjoyed by Exeter today. The casting asiside of great Tigers like Moody, (who was then the England captain), in my opinion, started the rot. That a player who loved the club more than his own safety could be ditched in the way he was, sent a message right through the establishment that no matter how good you have been, how much you have cared, you may be dumped, even if you are the current England Captain. That one was was widely seen as down to Cockerill and his poor man management but I have my doubts. The spirit in the club amongst the players was destroyed by that one crass and stupid act and has never recovered. The great "all in together, family spirit drained away like water down a storm drain. We were no longer the Tigers family of greats, just employees of a sports club. I know I have voiced this on here before but if you talk to the players who were around when Lewis was dumped you will get a flavour of how badly it went down. Read some of the accounts in the various books that have published since. The old Tigers spirit is not there now, that is beyond dispute and you can argue change of coaches and poor recruiting all you like. The "they shall not pass", "iron in the blood" that was always our strength has been ditched and by fools who din't really appreciate what we had.
Maybe Cockers was more forward thinking than you give credit for.
Fast forward to 2019 and HIA protocols might back up the view that it couldn't and shouldn't go on as you were.

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Re: Accountability

Post by sapajo » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:33 pm

ourla wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:13 pm
CerysCleopatra wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:56 pm
Please can we have some kind of sign that anyone running the club cares about what is happening as much as the supporters do.
What precisely are you looking for. Cohen has spoken extensively about our problems, as have others less frequently.
Talk is cheap and the Tigers spin machine has been on warp speed. What we need is the BOD to wake up and do their utmost to turn our great club away from the abyss and back to the top.
Alas with this shower I fear its completely beyond their capability.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

Dangerous4
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Re: Accountability

Post by Dangerous4 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:02 pm

sapajo wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:33 pm
ourla wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:13 pm
CerysCleopatra wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:56 pm
Please can we have some kind of sign that anyone running the club cares about what is happening as much as the supporters do.
What precisely are you looking for. Cohen has spoken extensively about our problems, as have others less frequently.
Talk is cheap and the Tigers spin machine has been on warp speed. What we need is the BOD to wake up and do their utmost to turn our great club away from the abyss and back to the top.
Alas with this shower I fear its completely beyond their capability.

Yes. Great players don't seem to make great directors!

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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by JWM » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:29 pm

Smudge wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:00 pm
The family atmospher at Tigers was real, very much like the one enjoyed by Exeter today.
In my view, a lot of the change in atmosphere is down to the physical changes to the Ground over the last decade. The construction of firstly the Caterpillar Stand and then the new Clubhouse Stand replaced the cosy and homely with current spec. But more importantly, the much larger physical scale makes them much more open, sound dissipates quickly, and it is very hard to generate the same sort of atmosphere as the ‘tiny’ century-old Crumbie Stand.

Also, it is pretty much inevitable that the extra capacity in these new stands will most likely be taken up by newer people, perhaps less familiar with both the Ground and club traditions, and the game itself, therefore less confident.

This doesn’t mean Ground accommodation shouldn’t be updated! But there is a price to pay, even when keeping one’s Home fit for purpose.
ST in new Clubhouse stand ... sadly, my back's no longer up to standing :-(

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Re: Accountability

Post by ourla » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:36 am

sapajo wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:33 pm
ourla wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:13 pm
CerysCleopatra wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:56 pm
Please can we have some kind of sign that anyone running the club cares about what is happening as much as the supporters do.
What precisely are you looking for. Cohen has spoken extensively about our problems, as have others less frequently.
Talk is cheap and the Tigers spin machine has been on warp speed. What we need is the BOD to wake up and do their utmost to turn our great club away from the abyss and back to the top.
Alas with this shower I fear its completely beyond their capability.
Sorry but you've come nowhere near to answering the question. You say "talk is cheap" so clearly you don't want words but action. So what precisely are you looking for Cohen or "anyone running the club" to do? What actions?
You're either in or you're out

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