Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

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CitizenSmiff
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by CitizenSmiff » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:45 am

Myself I would start by asking the esteemed Board to answer one simple question- who are we? We're not Deano's Tigers because we don't have an indestructible forward pack, we're not Cockers' Tigers because we don't have the intelligence to frustrate better teams into giving up victories we had no right to. What does that leave, who are Geordan's Tigers, what do we represent? If anybody currently sat on our board can give me an answer to that question I'll happily eat a match programme.

sapajo
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by sapajo » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:09 am

I have said it many many times appoint a world class DOR, clear out the non performers, sign quality players that will give us a better balance between backs and forwards.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

kend
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by kend » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:12 am

Smudge wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:00 pm
My point about Ben Kay is that we always have to have someone to blame when things go wrong.
There was clearly a lot wrong with Tigers from way back before he and Rory were directors, even Sir Clive.
The family atmospher at Tigers was real, very much like the one enjoyed by Exeter today. The casting asiside of great Tigers like Moody, (who was then the England captain), in my opinion, started the rot. That a player who loved the club more than his own safety could be ditched in the way he was, sent a message right through the establishment that no matter how good you have been, how much you have cared, you may be dumped, even if you are the current England Captain. That one was was widely seen as down to Cockerill and his poor man management but I have my doubts. The spirit in the club amongst the players was destroyed by that one crass and stupid act and has never recovered. The great "all in together, family spirit drained away like water down a storm drain. We were no longer the Tigers family of greats, just employees of a sports club. I know I have voiced this on here before but if you talk to the players who were around when Lewis was dumped you will get a flavour of how badly it went down. Read some of the accounts in the various books that have published since. The old Tigers spirit is not there now, that is beyond dispute and you can argue change of coaches and poor recruiting all you like. The "they shall not pass", "iron in the blood" that was always our strength has been ditched and by fools who din't really appreciate what we had.
And yet recently Denton has this so say:
I have another two years left on my contract and Leicester have been unbelievably supportive, I can’t say that enough
Which doesn't sound like a club cavalier with it's players. The players have changed as well. They have only known professionalism and have entirely different expectations in terms of their careers, earning potential and treatment. Exeter and Sarries have crafted cohesive team cultures which fit with the professional game. Both took the time to do so (if you think the club was ruthless with Moody, it was nothing on Venter at Sarries).

Moody left the club in 2010, nine years and 4 coaches later Tigers are still struggling with identity? If so the problem is at executive level, both operationally and strategically. My personal opinion is the BoD are not fit for purpose. I wonder if this is because there aren't any really creative business types there? Wray and Rowe created their businesses in fast moving environments. I'm guessing aggregates are not quite as dynamic.....

LE18
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by LE18 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:16 pm

kend wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:12 am
Smudge wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:00 pm
My point about Ben Kay is that we always have to have someone to blame when things go wrong.
There was clearly a lot wrong with Tigers from way back before he and Rory were directors, even Sir Clive.
The family atmospher at Tigers was real, very much like the one enjoyed by Exeter today. The casting asiside of great Tigers like Moody, (who was then the England captain), in my opinion, started the rot. That a player who loved the club more than his own safety could be ditched in the way he was, sent a message right through the establishment that no matter how good you have been, how much you have cared, you may be dumped, even if you are the current England Captain. That one was was widely seen as down to Cockerill and his poor man management but I have my doubts. The spirit in the club amongst the players was destroyed by that one crass and stupid act and has never recovered. The great "all in together, family spirit drained away like water down a storm drain. We were no longer the Tigers family of greats, just employees of a sports club. I know I have voiced this on here before but if you talk to the players who were around when Lewis was dumped you will get a flavour of how badly it went down. Read some of the accounts in the various books that have published since. The old Tigers spirit is not there now, that is beyond dispute and you can argue change of coaches and poor recruiting all you like. The "they shall not pass", "iron in the blood" that was always our strength has been ditched and by fools who din't really appreciate what we had.
And yet recently Denton has this so say:
I have another two years left on my contract and Leicester have been unbelievably supportive, I can’t say that enough
Which doesn't sound like a club cavalier with it's players. The players have changed as well. They have only known professionalism and have entirely different expectations in terms of their careers, earning potential and treatment. Exeter and Sarries have crafted cohesive team cultures which fit with the professional game. Both took the time to do so (if you think the club was ruthless with Moody, it was nothing on Venter at Sarries).

Moody left the club in 2010, nine years and 4 coaches later Tigers are still struggling with identity? If so the problem is at executive level, both operationally and strategically. My personal opinion is the BoD are not fit for purpose. I wonder if this is because there aren't any really creative business types there? Wray and Rowe created their businesses in fast moving environments. I'm guessing aggregates are not quite as dynamic.....
I think you should take another look at our Board members, Non Execs who are real business guys, OK not Rugby, but business men.

ourla
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by ourla » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:30 pm

sapajo wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:09 am
I have said it many many times appoint a world class DOR
OK. That is fair enough. Obviously "a world class DOR" is subjective but certainly a combo of Glynn, O'C/Mauger/Murphy isn't it. But I can't see the BOD changing tack unless we get relegated.
sapajo wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:09 am
clear out the non performers, sign quality players that will give us a better balance between backs and forwards.
I think the problem with this is it's all subjective. And also if the coaching isn't right it may be that quality players are non-performing.

I guess for me the board have gone down the Murphy route and whether it's the right route or not will become more obvious over time. Some, like yourself, would see at is already proven. And I am not saying that is wrong. I just don't see calls for the board to "do something" a bit questionable in that they have already done quite a lot, arguably badly, so calls to do more of the same isn't perhaps the call to be made.
You're either in or you're out

sapajo
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by sapajo » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:27 pm

The BOD must now end this ludicrous gamble that Murphy will come good in his current role and appoint that world class DOR they promised us. Failing to continue to do so is reckless and is my opinion is at the heart of the ruin of our great club!
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

JP14
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by JP14 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:42 pm

Cohen lied but he doesn’t necessarily owe us a World Class DoR.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

sapajo
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by sapajo » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:00 pm

JP14 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:42 pm
Cohen lied but he doesn’t necessarily owe us a World Class DoR.
Its now a necessity and the BOD must deliver if they are serious in getting us back to where we were 6 long seasons ago.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

JP14
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by JP14 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:25 pm

Do we have the resources, do we have the ambition and tenacity from the board? No I don’t think so.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Dangerous4
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by Dangerous4 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:07 pm

Both the BOD and the club, are now the laughing stock rugby, thanks to those "untouchables" who run us. Shame on them. :smt013 :smt013

NONAME
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:07 am

I think everyone seems to be missing the point..its all down to money. Tigers do not have that 'sugar daddy' and if they did would they break the salary cap as others have???? The rumour is Mr Tom has let it be known he is selling his interest in the club and he may not be the only one. Rugby clubs do not make money but eat it up. To get Tigers back to the top I think we are talking of an initial investment of at least £15-£20 million and possibly another £5 million every year. This is a lot of money but to attract the best coaches and players thats what is required.

Scott1
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by Scott1 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:08 am

I thought we spent up to the cap?! :smt017

chewbacca
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by chewbacca » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:13 am

Scott1 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:08 am
I thought we spent up to the cap?! :smt017
I think the proposition is that spending up to the cap wont get you where you want to be. You need some 'creative accounting'
I'm not cynical just experienced

Scott1
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by Scott1 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:15 am

Sale arnt using any ,in fact they are well below the cap.

chewbacca
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Re: Cockerill - blame the hierarchy

Post by chewbacca » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:17 am

Would be impressive if they won the prem or the european that. But they havent and thats where we should want to be.
I'm not cynical just experienced

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