Ring fencing

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4049
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Neverland

Re: Ring fencing

Post by JP14 » Tue May 07, 2019 6:08 pm

Leeds is now Yorkshire Carnegie D4 :smt023
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

1989Tiger
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:24 pm

Re: Ring fencing

Post by 1989Tiger » Tue May 07, 2019 6:28 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 2:57 pm
DevonTiger wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 pm
Here is my take on Ring Fencing. Increase the league to 14 teams with Leeds being the 14th club. This way you have a more or less even spread of clubs across the country. Keep the play offs but everyone only plays each other the once therefore cutting down on player fatigue and also being able to take on Europe seriously. (Sarries aside as it’s blatantly clear the cap is being flaunted as per their game against Chiefs at the weekend).

The championship becomes a proper professional league mirroring the Premiership’s structure in play offs but with no promotion but with relegation thus allowing 3rd tier downwards to get to a professional level.

Reintroduce a cup competition for both leagues as a straight knockout competition like it used to be with the Pilkington cup etc. The final being played at Twickenham. The premiership teams are only allowed to field a small number of first team players therefore still allowing for player welfare. The cup competition then becomes a shop window for the championship players to show they can live at premiership level thus allowing a form of transfer system. I know posters will say this will create a situation similar to football and unsustainable however this is where an increased cap could work policed correctly with a max transfer fee and wage % ie 80/20 split. Foreign transfers are as current. If both leagues did this it would allow money to filter down to the 3rd tier and lower.

Overall I feel the structure would ensure growth across all regions, allow clubs to take on Europe and also enhance England and the other home nations at international level as there is limited player burnout each season.
Why Carnegie and not Newcastle?

The idea seems awful to me. Sorry.
No one has given me one idea that sounds good when it comes to ring fencing or expanding the Premiership.

They’re all awful ideas.

johnthegriff
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Ring fencing

Post by johnthegriff » Tue May 07, 2019 8:05 pm

I am absolutely dead set against any form of ring fencing, we must retain promotion and relegation, our battle to survive in the Premiership this season added interest to the closing games. There must be found some way of adequately funding the Championship, perhaps if sky invested a little time and money in showing English second tier matches it might help. Investors might be persuaded to come in to support the likes of Ealing, Carnegie, Jersey, Pirates etc. It is important that we maintain the criteria for Premiership grounds but maybe there should be relaxation of the rules for sharing with soccer teams. It is sad that we have temporarily lost a team in the North East rugby needs more by way of northern teams. It's a shame Wasps felt it necessary to move from London to clutter up the already well covered Midlands, if they had to move it would have served rugby better if they had gone to the South East
There are teams lower than the Championship that given time and investment could be come an Exeter of the future they must always have the pathway available for them to travel when the time is right for them.

Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Ring fencing

Post by Hot_Charlie » Wed May 08, 2019 12:08 am

johnthegriff wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:05 pm
There must be found some way of adequately funding the Championship, perhaps if sky invested a little time and money in showing English second tier matches it might help.
Why Sky? BT Sport have been the exclusive provider of coverage of the top flight and European Champions Cup over the past two years, so why not them? Why not the 55 old farts of the RFU?

Tom May gives an eloquent view on ring fencing in Brian Moores podcast this week. Gives a professionals perspective from someone who's been in several teams on both sides of the drop.

1989Tiger
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:24 pm

Re: Ring fencing

Post by 1989Tiger » Wed May 08, 2019 9:57 am

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:08 am
johnthegriff wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:05 pm
There must be found some way of adequately funding the Championship, perhaps if sky invested a little time and money in showing English second tier matches it might help.
Why Sky? BT Sport have been the exclusive provider of coverage of the top flight and European Champions Cup over the past two years, so why not them? Why not the 55 old farts of the RFU?

Tom May gives an eloquent view on ring fencing in Brian Moores podcast this week. Gives a professionals perspective from someone who's been in several teams on both sides of the drop.
What did Tom May say or is this your way of trying to get us to listen to the podcast? :smt002

johnthegriff
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Ring fencing

Post by johnthegriff » Wed May 08, 2019 12:13 pm

I suggest Sky because BT are showing the Premiership games that take place at the same time as Premiership matches, Sky or terrestrial TV could show Championship games to an interested audience and that would bring in sponsorship and investment to the teams.

Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Ring fencing

Post by Hot_Charlie » Wed May 08, 2019 2:39 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:13 pm
I suggest Sky because BT are showing the Premiership games that take place at the same time as Premiership matches, Sky or terrestrial TV could show Championship games to an interested audience and that would bring in sponsorship and investment to the teams.
I'd doubt Sky would necessarily want to go for such as small package. I'd guess it would be more marketable if they were to come packaged together. You wonder whether some clubs in the Championship have resisted TV coverage in the past due to concerns over people not bothering to turn up and watch? Sky used to cover it quite well, particularly the (ridiculous but good for TV) 1st-8th place play off system.

Interestingly, on whether teams are suitable for promotion, Exeter's average home crowd in their last year before promotion was a shade under 5000, underlining what an embarrassment it would have been had Trailfinders beaten LI to the top of the table.

Cardiff Tig
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:25 pm

Re: Ring fencing

Post by Cardiff Tig » Wed May 08, 2019 3:02 pm

Sky currently have a deal to show championship games. They show about 3 games all season, all of which include the relegated side as far as I'm aware.

jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 6693
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Ring fencing

Post by jgriffin » Wed May 08, 2019 5:31 pm

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:39 pm
johnthegriff wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:13 pm
I suggest Sky because BT are showing the Premiership games that take place at the same time as Premiership matches, Sky or terrestrial TV could show Championship games to an interested audience and that would bring in sponsorship and investment to the teams.
I'd doubt Sky would necessarily want to go for such as small package. I'd guess it would be more marketable if they were to come packaged together. You wonder whether some clubs in the Championship have resisted TV coverage in the past due to concerns over people not bothering to turn up and watch? Sky used to cover it quite well, particularly the (ridiculous but good for TV) 1st-8th place play off system.

Interestingly, on whether teams are suitable for promotion, Exeter's average home crowd in their last year before promotion was a shade under 5000, underlining what an embarrassment it would have been had Trailfinders beaten LI to the top of the table.
Exeter were already in Sandy Park, Tony Rowe was already playing financial games with SWComms as the cover and tickets were £10. Sandy Park was already earmarked for housing and a big IKEA dream around it. Exeter gained promotion thanks to the Baxter Bros, and a town with a growing rich population and a carp footie team all came together.. A unique set of circumstances IMO.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2631
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Ring fencing

Post by Scott1 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:38 pm

Yes jgriffin,as I alluded to earlier in the thread everything was set up nicely for Chiefs with their ground,Rowe,the trust and the massive catchment area where they had their pick. We will most likely never see another Chiefs again and it's not a valid reason for rejecting ringfencing imo as is the relegation madness this year which has never happened before.

BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2453
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Ring fencing

Post by BFG » Thu May 09, 2019 8:58 am

If they ring fenced the Premiership then personally I think spectator interest would shrink and that's clearly the big concern to clubs with good crowd numbers otherwise they would've done it already.
They'd end up with something resembling the pro14 or whatever it is now.
Fans should worry about allowing it to happen as for certain people I suspect ring fencing could be the next step in chasing the European league dream for whom rugby is more of a television sport.
Better to strengthen links with the Championship and not create a bigger logistical nightmare for supporters as without atmosphere T.V interest will also fail.

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4049
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Neverland

Re: Ring fencing

Post by JP14 » Thu May 09, 2019 4:24 pm

For me if they ringfence it should be temporary to allow substantial RFU investment and devotion of resources to the Championship in order to make it more competitive.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2453
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Ring fencing

Post by BFG » Sat May 11, 2019 11:03 am

JP14 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:24 pm
For me if they ringfence it should be temporary to allow substantial RFU investment and devotion of resources to the Championship in order to make it more competitive.
The RFU haven't got the money, redundancies have been made, funding cuts are coming and the roof needs repairing.
In my opinion ring fencing should only be an option for consideration (reluctantly IMO) if an English match day player quota was introduced for all clubs, I reckon a minimum 75%, otherwise there is absolutely no point in aligning England academy clubs to ring fencing to then be allowed to go and fill their teams with foriegn imports only here on a pay day.

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4049
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Neverland

Re: Ring fencing

Post by JP14 » Sat May 11, 2019 11:40 am

BFG wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 11:03 am
JP14 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:24 pm
For me if they ringfence it should be temporary to allow substantial RFU investment and devotion of resources to the Championship in order to make it more competitive.
The RFU haven't got the money, redundancies have been made, funding cuts are coming and the roof needs repairing.
In my opinion ring fencing should only be an option for consideration (reluctantly IMO) if an English match day player quota was introduced for all clubs, I reckon a minimum 75%, otherwise there is absolutely no point in aligning England academy clubs to ring fencing to then be allowed to go and fill their teams with foriegn imports only here on a pay day.
If the old farts starting getting the pay cuts then they will have more money!
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Coleshillad, EarlofShilton, Google [Bot], Mark62, RichieB and 2 guests