Ring fencing

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DevonTiger
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by DevonTiger » Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 pm

Here is my take on Ring Fencing. Increase the league to 14 teams with Leeds being the 14th club. This way you have a more or less even spread of clubs across the country. Keep the play offs but everyone only plays each other the once therefore cutting down on player fatigue and also being able to take on Europe seriously. (Sarries aside as it’s blatantly clear the cap is being flaunted as per their game against Chiefs at the weekend).

The championship becomes a proper professional league mirroring the Premiership’s structure in play offs but with no promotion but with relegation thus allowing 3rd tier downwards to get to a professional level.

Reintroduce a cup competition for both leagues as a straight knockout competition like it used to be with the Pilkington cup etc. The final being played at Twickenham. The premiership teams are only allowed to field a small number of first team players therefore still allowing for player welfare. The cup competition then becomes a shop window for the championship players to show they can live at premiership level thus allowing a form of transfer system. I know posters will say this will create a situation similar to football and unsustainable however this is where an increased cap could work policed correctly with a max transfer fee and wage % ie 80/20 split. Foreign transfers are as current. If both leagues did this it would allow money to filter down to the 3rd tier and lower.

Overall I feel the structure would ensure growth across all regions, allow clubs to take on Europe and also enhance England and the other home nations at international level as there is limited player burnout each season.

ay2oh
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by ay2oh » Mon May 06, 2019 9:54 pm

And how would clubs survive financially with only 7 league games per season ?
A2O

1989Tiger
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by 1989Tiger » Mon May 06, 2019 9:56 pm

I stopped reading when I saw your idea to promote Leeds (now called Yorkshire) even though they've not looked good enough to be a Premiership team for years and when you mentioned only playing each team once.

Both are a terrible idea. Sorry.

WhitecapTiger
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by WhitecapTiger » Mon May 06, 2019 10:08 pm

How would this:
DevonTiger wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 pm
The premiership teams are only allowed to field a small number of first team players therefore still allowing for player welfare.
Not be affected by this:
DevonTiger wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 pm
(Sarries aside as it’s blatantly clear the cap is being flaunted as per their game against Chiefs at the weekend).
:smt017

Why Yorkshire/Leeds? They finished 6th in the Championship, why not Ealing, Bedford, Jersey, Cornish Pirates? Based on club size or prospective crowds? rather than on pitch performances/results?

Not for me thanks.
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Hot_Charlie
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by Hot_Charlie » Mon May 06, 2019 10:20 pm

ay2oh wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:54 pm
And how would clubs survive financially with only 7 league games per season ?
Quite.

The conference idea does work on some levels though, although doesn't on almost as many.

Two conferences of 7 or 8, followed by a play off system across conferences to establish final positions (position based prize £££ = motivation) could keep the clubs happy in terms of home matches (ticket sales = good ) and allow a showpiece fixture at HQ (good for PRL). Some derbies would be lost though (not good), but, in the process you've got a way of expanding the top table to 14-16 teams (good); rugby is now taken to a wider audience (even better). Bring in all thirteen shareholders and three more teams - I'd like see Pirates and a Yorkshire team (geographically easy for an away match :smt003 ) and A N Other.

The problem is then the second tier. Keep it at 12 clubs. Adequately fund it - at the expense of the top tier if required - and make it a competitive league with sensible restrictions on playing budgets, EQP, guest players etc.

Maybe even have a 2 up, 2 down promotion and relegation every 2nd or 3rd season.

wellstiger
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by wellstiger » Tue May 07, 2019 6:31 am

Why fiddle.
The system works
I know some teams Yo Yo (Worcester- London Irish ) They should have the financial where for all to cope.
If its about helping the likes of York, Cornish Pirates etc. Then give more financial incentive to Championship.

Should TV companies get more involved in Championship games and promote the game more?

This seasons Prem relegation battle ( although difficult as a Tiger fan ) was a nail biter and more was made of the fact than the Top four chase.

Players are complaining of too many games -increasing the league to 14 would only be adding to the stresses and lengthening the season. Please no.

Scott1
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by Scott1 » Tue May 07, 2019 6:47 am

13 teams in a ringfenced league,1 team gets a bye every week and bin the PRC,simples! :smt002

mol2
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by mol2 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:01 am

What would Tigers, Worcester and Newcastle have been playing for had there been no threat of relegation.

Financially its bad for the relegated club but without it the second half of the season becomes meaningless for those outside of challenging for the play offs or the top level European competition.

Would Exeter have been top of the Premiership had there been ring fencing a few years ago?

Teams should have the option for promotion if good enough and to enable that there has to be relegation.

Rugby is a competitive sport and without relegation the Premiership becomes more like theatre than sport.

Scott1
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by Scott1 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:04 am

There has never been a season like this afaicr as regards to relegation so it's not really a big argument,if it was like this year in year out then maybe. As for Exeter,pretty much the same very,very unlikely to ever see that happen again,they had a lot going for them with their own ground and the trust etc.

1989Tiger
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by 1989Tiger » Tue May 07, 2019 9:45 am

The best idea is a 12 team Premiership with the team finishing 12th, getting relegated and the winner of the Championship, getting promoted to the Premiership.

Hot_Charlie
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by Hot_Charlie » Tue May 07, 2019 9:56 am

wellstiger wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:31 am
Why fiddle.
The system works
No it doesn’t.

Just ask the formerly fully professional clubs now moving to being semi-pro and sliding to the bottom - or worse, out - of the Championship.

The system is designed to protect the Premiership’s interests and isn’t assisting established second tier clubs aspire for promotion.

1989Tiger
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by 1989Tiger » Tue May 07, 2019 10:03 am

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:56 am
wellstiger wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:31 am
Why fiddle.
The system works
No it doesn’t.

Just ask the formerly fully professional clubs now moving to being semi-pro and sliding to the bottom - or worse, out - of the Championship.

The system is designed to protect the Premiership’s interests and isn’t assisting established second tier clubs aspire for promotion.
That's down to mis-management by the individual clubs.

Hot_Charlie
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by Hot_Charlie » Tue May 07, 2019 10:47 am

1989Tiger wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:03 am
Hot_Charlie wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:56 am
wellstiger wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:31 am
Why fiddle.
The system works
No it doesn’t.

Just ask the formerly fully professional clubs now moving to being semi-pro and sliding to the bottom - or worse, out - of the Championship.

The system is designed to protect the Premiership’s interests and isn’t assisting established second tier clubs aspire for promotion.
That's down to mis-management by the individual clubs.
Is it? Not that other clubs are throwing money at players rather than build a sustainable infrastructure? It is their fault the Championship has been left to fester below the Premiership without decent investment from the authorities (the broke RFU whose genuine interest in rugby seems to end at the national team?)?

Dangerous4
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by Dangerous4 » Tue May 07, 2019 2:57 pm

DevonTiger wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 pm
Here is my take on Ring Fencing. Increase the league to 14 teams with Leeds being the 14th club. This way you have a more or less even spread of clubs across the country. Keep the play offs but everyone only plays each other the once therefore cutting down on player fatigue and also being able to take on Europe seriously. (Sarries aside as it’s blatantly clear the cap is being flaunted as per their game against Chiefs at the weekend).

The championship becomes a proper professional league mirroring the Premiership’s structure in play offs but with no promotion but with relegation thus allowing 3rd tier downwards to get to a professional level.

Reintroduce a cup competition for both leagues as a straight knockout competition like it used to be with the Pilkington cup etc. The final being played at Twickenham. The premiership teams are only allowed to field a small number of first team players therefore still allowing for player welfare. The cup competition then becomes a shop window for the championship players to show they can live at premiership level thus allowing a form of transfer system. I know posters will say this will create a situation similar to football and unsustainable however this is where an increased cap could work policed correctly with a max transfer fee and wage % ie 80/20 split. Foreign transfers are as current. If both leagues did this it would allow money to filter down to the 3rd tier and lower.

Overall I feel the structure would ensure growth across all regions, allow clubs to take on Europe and also enhance England and the other home nations at international level as there is limited player burnout each season.
Why Carnegie and not Newcastle?

The idea seems awful to me. Sorry.

WhitecapTiger
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Re: Ring fencing

Post by WhitecapTiger » Tue May 07, 2019 5:07 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 2:57 pm
DevonTiger wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 pm
Here is my take on Ring Fencing. Increase the league to 14 teams with Leeds being the 14th club. This way you have a more or less even spread of clubs across the country. Keep the play offs but everyone only plays each other the once therefore cutting down on player fatigue and also being able to take on Europe seriously. (Sarries aside as it’s blatantly clear the cap is being flaunted as per their game against Chiefs at the weekend).

The championship becomes a proper professional league mirroring the Premiership’s structure in play offs but with no promotion but with relegation thus allowing 3rd tier downwards to get to a professional level.

Reintroduce a cup competition for both leagues as a straight knockout competition like it used to be with the Pilkington cup etc. The final being played at Twickenham. The premiership teams are only allowed to field a small number of first team players therefore still allowing for player welfare. The cup competition then becomes a shop window for the championship players to show they can live at premiership level thus allowing a form of transfer system. I know posters will say this will create a situation similar to football and unsustainable however this is where an increased cap could work policed correctly with a max transfer fee and wage % ie 80/20 split. Foreign transfers are as current. If both leagues did this it would allow money to filter down to the 3rd tier and lower.

Overall I feel the structure would ensure growth across all regions, allow clubs to take on Europe and also enhance England and the other home nations at international level as there is limited player burnout each season.
Why Carnegie and not Newcastle?

The idea seems awful to me. Sorry.
I'm not sure but I would presume that by '14' DevonTiger meant Falcons stay put, Irish come up as planned and Carnegie join as the 14th team........
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

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