LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 6

[baz1664]

This is an honest open question - seeking wisdom from wiser minds. It is not inherently negative. I appreciate that Tigers have got to be wise in their recruitment. No team can have a dream team in all positions and stay within the salary cap- although Saracens are 'the exception that proves the rule'.

How does the recruitment of Taute and Reid strengthen us, given the fact that Tait and Toomua are leaving. I get it that Callum Green is an upgrade on Kitchener - but he is no Mostart.

If it is it to allow a re-direction of salary cap to the forwards, is the recruitment of Taufua & Green going to re-shape an outclassed 4-8 in the pack. It will mean we still field two second rows who are not International calibre, an 8 who was not a regular in his club side before he joined us, ditto Thompson (who I love) but is not a player of international pedigree. Denton (but will he be with us) & Taufua.

I was bought up on the "its forwards who win games and backs decide by how many" approach. Why is it that we need current international British Lions aplenty in the backs, but don't even require former international class players in our back 5 forwards.

I repeat - I'm not slagging the signings just announced. They just don't seem to really move us on in any way.

I think we need to sit tight and see who else is coming. Just because the club have confirmed some names who are leaving and some who have signed, it doesn't automatically follow that one group are a replacement for the other.

Steady the buffs!

Have to agree, uninspiring signings for me, 2 fringe players and an ex player who is playing for the worse team in the premiership, has a similar feeling to previous seasons, I really hope we see two or three top notch singings who are playing week in week out and getting plaudits, Taufua is a perfect example and great signing, an excellent player who is playing in a winning team and classed as an integral part of the crusaders pack, more of these required!!

[FrontRowUnionMember]

This is an honest open question - seeking wisdom from wiser minds. It is not inherently negative. I appreciate that Tigers have got to be wise in their recruitment. No team can have a dream team in all positions and stay within the salary cap- although Saracens are 'the exception that proves the rule'.

How does the recruitment of Taute and Reid strengthen us, given the fact that Tait and Toomua are leaving. I get it that Callum Green is an upgrade on Kitchener - but he is no Mostart.

If it is it to allow a re-direction of salary cap to the forwards, is the recruitment of Taufua & Green going to re-shape an outclassed 4-8 in the pack. It will mean we still field two second rows who are not International calibre, an 8 who was not a regular in his club side before he joined us, ditto Thompson (who I love) but is not a player of international pedigree. Denton (but will he be with us) & Taufua.

I was bought up on the "its forwards who win games and backs decide by how many" approach. Why is it that we need current international British Lions aplenty in the backs, but don't even require former international class players in our back 5 forwards.

I repeat - I'm not slagging the signings just announced. They just don't seem to really move us on in any way.

I think until the full level of recruitment is announced it’s too early to judge definitively.
However, based on what we’ve seen so far and what is rumoured to be happening, to me it appears some intelligent squad reshaping rather than obvious instant upgrades across the board. Sure I read somewhere that a number of our players are better paid than their performances justified, so it’s about removing that element and getting more out of the salary cap. For me what we are doing is addressing the outright balance of the squad.
Generally we’re bringing in younger players to replace those departing, but where we are adding non internationals (or limited caps), taking the Toomua/Reid trade off for example, we need to look at the bigger picture. A large chunk of salary was tied up in Toomua. Great player, but have we really seen bang for our buck given his injuries, and latterly his international distractions? In Reid, we are getting a player who has been in and around a hugely successful Leinster side for some time now, to stay in that company he has to have something special. Perhaps not often first choice, but very much first port of call when some of his more illustrious teammates were absent. Originally behind O’Driscoll/D’arcy axis and latterly Henshaw/Ringrose. That’s the level he’s been playing at without receiving the international plaudits some are looking for. Taute, played at the top of the game at club level, brings a wealth of leadership skills, and no little talent/physicality to our midfield. Intelligent replacement for Tait, has all the experience but with a bit more physical edge.

In the pack, I feel we can be a little lightweight. Fitzgerald and Williams, are hybrids, not quite the grunt of a lock, but not quite the dynamism of a six. Going back to out and out locks who will add grunt to the scrum, and hit breakdowns with some real brute force. Adding genuine back row who can cover the ground at pace and carry with real venom will help our game I think. No more middle ground. Green and Lavanini(?) will bring more physical competitive edge in the row than GK and MF, and Taufua will offer more dynamism than MW at 6. You shouldn’t underestimate how this kind of shift impacts other players. With more physical second row, our props get more help in scrum, so have to carry less load on their own, adding freshness outside of the set piece. Equally Taufua will be quicker across the park supporting Thompson, and as an additional dynamic ball carrier will fix defenders leaving more space for Kalamafoni.
Are the players signed/linked clear upgrades? Generally I’d say yes, but in some cases it’s just not so obvious, you need to look at the mix of the team, not just the individual. Overall we appear to be heading towards a better makeup of squad at a better level. Freshen up the squad with players hungry to impress. Remove the apathy.

There is a tier or player that is perhaps where we want to target at this point, a player of that calibre and ability just a slight step under international class, who is available all year round, but of sufficient calibre to deliver week on week. Look at the back 5 Exeter fielded against us. Dennis, Atkins, Ewers, Armand & Kvesic. Likewise Rhodes and Wray at Sarries, not as decorated as some of their team mates, but always in the squad’s. How many of them are truly international class? Yet how many would walk into most starting teams at clubs in our league. And these guys are available week on week, rarely hindered by international callups. Just because a player isn’t a banker starter for international teams, doesn’t mean they can’t bring something to our party.

[fortysix]

Another batch of journeymen cast offs, when will the Board ever learn ???

We need a pair of full on top notch second rows and a dirty great No 8

We were the once great Leicester Tigers. !!

Remember Paris and Cardiff. No earthly chance with this lot, maybe Top 4 at best..

Cannot see how our current Board cannot see the wood from the trees when all the flipping supporters can.

[RagingBull]

People need to wait till the whole picture is shown till they start whinging.
It's all about who they are replacing on the whole.

But then again people seem to expect us to be signing internationals for 3rd choice because you know it's that simple isn't.....

No Green isn't a Mostert but Lavanini would be.

If we can go from
1st - Spencer
2nd - Kitchener
3rd - Fitzgerald
4th - Wells
5th - Voss
to
1st - Lavanini
2nd - Spencer
3rd - Green
4th - Wells
5th - Lewis

Wait and see who goes and who comes in before crying.

[strawclearer]

I think until the full level of recruitment is announced it’s too early to judge definitively.....
[etc]
.....based on what we’ve seen Just because a player isn’t a banker starter for international teams, doesn’t mean they can’t bring something to our party.

Good analysis

[newport tiger]

I don't get the negativity regarding these signings, its no secret that we have been at our most vulnerable during international breaks so we sign some quality players who will still be around during those periods. Here is a quote i copied from facebook from a Munster fan- "Thanks for everything Jaco. You've been superb for Munster. All the best to him and the Tigers". I don't know a lot about Noel Reid but Brian O'Driscoll rates him very highly. Calum Green has turned into an accomplished lock at Newcastle thanks to Deano, so overall i would say we have good reason to be optimistic.

[baz1664]

Just watched a few videos of Lavanini, this lad is a penalty/yellow/red card machine, first video on You Tube, “Rugby’s biggest thugs”, no claim to fame that, some awful tackles and in the current rugby climate is going to be racking up some serious miles heading to his disciplinary hearings and probably missing half the season with bans, I know every team needs an enforcer but this lad to me is just going to put us down to 14 men on to many occasions.

[voice of the crumbie]

I find myself in full agreement with Front Row Union member, RB, Strawclearer and Newport Tiger.

[voice of the crumbie]

Just watched a few videos of Lavanini, this lad is a penalty/yellow/red card machine, first video on You Tube, “Rugby’s biggest thugs”, no claim to fame that, some awful tackles and in the current rugby climate is going to be racking up some serious miles heading to his disciplinary hearings and probably missing half the season with bans, I know every team needs an enforcer but this lad to me is just going to put us down to 14 men on to many occasions.

That used to be true baz but from what I read, I believe he has cleaned up his act in recent times.

[CitizenSmiff]

I don't see the problem myself; Green could help turn our lineout into an effective weapon for the first time in years and the board aren't insane enough to make him our only second row reinforcement, Reid will hopefully mean we never have to rely on Joe Ford as backup 10 ever again and Taute is a potential first choice 12 and backup 15 if he can stay fit. These are all positive editions who won't cost very much, although it would be nice if the social media team would calm down a bit and stop acting like we've signed Rieko Ioane, that 'popcorn' business they do is infuriating.

[kpj tiger]

Just watched a few videos of Lavanini, this lad is a penalty/yellow/red card machine, first video on You Tube, “Rugby’s biggest thugs”, no claim to fame that, some awful tackles and in the current rugby climate is going to be racking up some serious miles heading to his disciplinary hearings and probably missing half the season with bans, I know every team needs an enforcer but this lad to me is just going to put us down to 14 men on to many occasions.

He's really cleaned up his game in the last season or so from what i've heard

[RagingBull]

George Martin confirmed as being in the development squad next season judging by his interview with Tigers.
Current England U18 captain so great news.


also Aspland-Robinson views himself more as a 13 going forward.

[Hot_Charlie]

Just watched a few videos of Lavanini, this lad is a penalty/yellow/red card machine, first video on You Tube, “Rugby’s biggest thugs”, no claim to fame that, some awful tackles and in the current rugby climate is going to be racking up some serious miles heading to his disciplinary hearings and probably missing half the season with bans, I know every team needs an enforcer but this lad to me is just going to put us down to 14 men on to many occasions.

Don’t worry. There’s a whole video dedicated to the Tuilagi “thugs” (their words). Often well edited too.

Good solid signings it seems with more to come. Green’s been mentioned alongside Spencer in the England picture, although arguably in the most competitive position.

Taute was taken to Munster by Van Graan, the very coach many people wanted to come to Tigers. Reid is well regarded in Leinster circles and has decent European Cup experience, kicks goals and seems an all round decent player.

[Mark62]

Maybe those so quick to criticise will come up with who they would have rather signed, whilst staying within the salary cap, only having 2 marquee players outside this.

We need to build an interchangeable squad making some sensible signings, whilst developing the youngsters, something that has not really happened through the previous coaching regimes.

I do not know figures in detail, but I would imagine if you took the salaries of Cole, May and Ford, that would be best part of a million gone on 3 players.
RagingBull, who has a much better idea than most, reckons Taufua will be on £300k, and I was told that George Worth was on £70k a couple of seasons ago.

The 3 signings so far are good quality signings, unless people want to say who they would rather have signed

[Hot_Charlie]

Maybe those so quick to criticise will come up with who they would have rather signed, whilst staying within the salary cap, only having 2 marquee players outside this.

We need to build an interchangeable squad making some sensible signings, whilst developing the youngsters, something that has not really happened through the previous coaching regimes.

I do not know figures in detail, but I would imagine if you took the salaries of Cole, May and Ford, that would be best part of a million gone on 3 players.
RagingBull, who has a much better idea than most, reckons Taufua will be on £300k, and I was told that George Worth was on £70k a couple of seasons ago.

The 3 signings so far are good quality signings, unless people want to say who they would rather have signed

Good post.