Tigers v Saints

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Rosco
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by Rosco » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:50 am

A world class back line made impotent by an ineffective 4-8. Line out was atrocious, mauls were disorganised... forwards coach has to go!

sam16111986
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by sam16111986 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:55 am

BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:22 am
If folk think players such as White are good enough then they are in for more disappointment, a hooker went to Bristol who was quicker.
Leicester were way off the pace last night.
Staying in the fight in matches is going to be extremely difficult if they are conceding tries like the first one last night, two attackers versus three defenders made to look like they had lead boots on and that was all the encouragement that Saints needed to go on and play their game.
The replacement props made Cole look quick, gaps galore and that's before we even get onto anything else.
I agree whole heartedly on the defensive points. Filling the line and keeping together as a line is basic stuff that we just didn't manage. I'd love to know what excuse BOC has for the second try, walking from the breakdown leaving a massive whole for Saints to exploit. These are the senior players and these are basics.

Your point on the youngsters I have to disagree. Partly because you do have a tendency to rate our academy products only when the leave and secondly because you are picking on White who was very good when he came on last night. White added tempo and got into Barnes ear, we have a lot of senior players including the club captain who barely said a word to Barnes last night. Barnes was not having a good game and at no point did we enquire as why Saints were allowed to flop over the ball at the breakdown not why they were allowed to concede penalties everytime we got 5m out. Their leaders were no where near as tight lipped and why it took an hour and a 20 year old rookie to start asking questions I don't know.

Early in the season White looked slow and one dimensional, he's starting to learn how set the tempo of the game and the way he sped up the service helped us get the consolation tries at the end.

Owolofela was solid at 15 as well. That was an area I was concerned about, particularly with Biggar's kicking game. Aspland-Robinson made a couple of dodgy reads in defence but otherwise looked good.

Forwards were not good enough. There's a clear out coming in the summer and it can't come soon enough amongst the big lads. Some many stupid penalties, Williams yellow card was deserved and moronic. Cole was harshly done by with his yellow but Kitchener could have easily had a 10 minute sit down conceding three unnecessary penalties inside 5 minutes. I'd drop the pair of them for that display. Bakewell should be part of the clear out in the summer, there's very little sign our forwards actually train together let alone have improved.
fleabane wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:43 am
Tigerbeat wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:36 am
Scott1 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:34 am
So apart from trying some youngsters what makes you think Murphy will succeed because that's not enough for me in afraid!
Give Murphy a chance to work with the players that he wants rather than the ones he has been left with.
In life, business and sport we have to make the best of the hand we are dealt.

Murphy hasn’t, and I don’t believe he has the skill or experience to.

We need someone who has.
I'd keep Murphy on board but appoint a DOR above him and potentially another head coach along side him. Split the role. Bakewell and Blake out. Get a DOR who has experience building up a side Jamie Joseph or Wessells will both come available by the end of the Autumn, Edwards available now. The other coach to compliment them either a forward or defensive minded one, Parling or Herring.

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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by johnthegriff » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:37 pm

I have now seen the game on TV as well as live at the match. Some posters are describing our back line as world class on paper, I think only three out of the seven come into that category with two being youngsters only just into Premiership rugby. Before the match I was concerned about Jordan Olowofela under the high ball, apart from one misjudgement he coped well and made several good runs, that was a positive, other positives were the pitch still looked great for this time of the season and I am positive Saints on the night were the better team. We were outscored by three tries to two and actually scored more points than Saints when we had fifteen men on the pitch.
We need another win from somewhere to be certain of avoiding relegation, I believe we will get that but obviously although staying up is our priority we must take steps to improve our squad for next season, some signings have been announced and others are so strongly rumoured that we can believe they are true and there could be other we do not know about. This obviously means that some guys currently playing probably know they are leaving and it may be difficult for them to produce their best form but they need to do so for their own pride.
I still think that we need stability in the coaching staff, Geordan I believe given his own players and a pre-season will prove upto the job, Phil Blake has only been in place for a short time, if Murphy is happy with the rest of his staff then fine he is in a results based industry and by Christmas he and them will be showing evidence of their potential. Changing Cocker and some poor signings was the mistake that precipitated the current mess, stability and some good signings with good youngsters progressing will get us out of it.

Scott1
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by Scott1 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:50 pm

Wish I had your enthusiasm and confidence jtg but with this coaching team I just don't see any progress. Even with our best XV out we've only had the odd good game and unlike others I only see minimal changes to our first XV so what is there to make me believe that all of a sudden these new players will make us perform a full 180?
Front row won't be touched,a new lock to be matched with Spencer perhaps,Taufua to join Thompson and Kala/Denton in back row. Halfbacks and MF will remain the same bar a new IC and back 3 will remain the same. This is my opinion of course but those who think there are some world class superstars coming in to save us are going to end up being disappointed. Even if they do the coaching team just isn't good enough sadly!

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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by BFG » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:53 pm

Sam if you can't see that the footwork and pace isn't there then it's no use you and I getting into an overly lengthy debate about it!
I say it as I see it and it's not just White, Sam Aspland Robinson and Olowafela's footwork and pace off the mark have also been exposed at this level in my opinion.
That first Saints try last night was defending of a comical standard.
Aspland Robinson also should've scored in the corner last night, didn't have the gas in my opinion.
An obsession with rangy players is apparent.
You also can't solely blame BOC for the dogleg for Saints second try, the four players bunched so close together that they could hold hands who rushed up in the blindside of the ruck were to blame.
You never ever rush up on a short blindside of a ruck as the ruck is in the way of the other players, this is basic stuff!

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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by TigerCam » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:16 pm

Carver510 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:54 am
We need big changes - I'm fed up of hearing the same excuses and the "everything will be alright" mentality from the higher-up's at the club. This has been going on for several years now and we are just getting worse. Despite the fact that Geordan is a legend of the club, we are in desperate need of a top coach/DOR, with a quality track record and who has not been around the Tigers set up before. We need fresh eyes. If you run a business which has stagnated/gone backwards etc for several years and is underperforming, you hire in somebody with experience and a good track record. It was not the right time to promote from within. I keep hearing "Rob Baxter/Mark McCall needed a few years to get their systems and culture embedded, that's the same with the Tigers", but I don't remember either of those teams producing insipid, lacklustre performances like we do, on such a regular basis. I would usually put myself in the "happy clapper" brigade, but no longer, as much as it pains me!
Chris Boyd is doing the same at FG! As he says, allowing the players to play to their strengths, playing what is in front of them and trusting in the youth.

Sadly, as I see it, the Tigers still continue to try and do it the 'Tiger's Way' which is IMO run into contact instead of space, try and batter the opposition into submission. Hasn't worked for years! Lethargic back five forwards, No vision and only GF with any ideas. GF was hung out to dry by the back 5 forwards last night who were too slow even to pass my granny with her zimmer frame!!!

The big worry is that the Tigers on this level of form could lose the remaining 5 games and will have to rely on LBPs and the results of other teams :smt010
Whoever said "one person cannot change the world' never ate undercooked bat

BFG
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by BFG » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:38 pm

TigerCam wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:16 pm
Carver510 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:54 am
We need big changes - I'm fed up of hearing the same excuses and the "everything will be alright" mentality from the higher-up's at the club. This has been going on for several years now and we are just getting worse. Despite the fact that Geordan is a legend of the club, we are in desperate need of a top coach/DOR, with a quality track record and who has not been around the Tigers set up before. We need fresh eyes. If you run a business which has stagnated/gone backwards etc for several years and is underperforming, you hire in somebody with experience and a good track record. It was not the right time to promote from within. I keep hearing "Rob Baxter/Mark McCall needed a few years to get their systems and culture embedded, that's the same with the Tigers", but I don't remember either of those teams producing insipid, lacklustre performances like we do, on such a regular basis. I would usually put myself in the "happy clapper" brigade, but no longer, as much as it pains me!
Chris Boyd is doing the same at FG! As he says, allowing the players to play to their strengths, playing what is in front of them and trusting in the youth.

Sadly, as I see it, the Tigers still continue to try and do it the 'Tiger's Way' which is IMO run into contact instead of space, try and batter the opposition into submission. Hasn't worked for years! Lethargic back five forwards, No vision and only GF with any ideas. GF was hung out to dry by the back 5 forwards last night who were too slow even to pass my granny with her zimmer frame!!!

The big worry is that the Tigers on this level of form could lose the remaining 5 games and will have to rely on LBPs and the results of other teams :smt010
All this doesn't escape the fact that the individual and collective defending for three Saints tries was very poor!

Not a jock
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by Not a jock » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:57 pm

No leadership, no inspiration, repeating tired old mantras, no Plan B - but that's enough about the other T May. Seconds thoughts, perhaps that sums up Tigers too?

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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by Dangerous4 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:04 pm

The writing is on the wall. Unless Newcastle and Worcester lose their remaining games, it would appear we are going to be relegated.

The performance last night was a disgrace, and showed, once again, the huge problems we have with our defence, and the lack of understanding about what we should be doing. One question needs answering, and that is what is happening regarding the coaching?

The scenario now is nothing short of being horrific.

speedski
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by speedski » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:45 pm

Its not looking good for us it ha to be said - and no post game interview or chat from Murphs on the TV either. The BBC sport quotes are the usual drivel.

sam16111986
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by sam16111986 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:56 pm

BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:53 pm
Sam if you can't see that the footwork and pace isn't there then it's no use you and I getting into an overly lengthy debate about it!

I say it as I see it and it's not just White, Sam Aspland Robinson and Olowafela's footwork and pace off the mark have also been exposed at this level in my opinion.
Think we may have to agree on that bit. You're talking drivel. Owolofela did very well cleaning up everything at the back and generally beat the first tackle using footwork and pace.

We look effective when the forwards turn up and create some momentum for the backs. It just doesn't occur and although White provided a brief kick start for the consolation tries it's not enough.

Scott1
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by Scott1 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:00 pm

Have to agree with Sam,upon taking some deep breaths and sleeping on it JO was very good under the high ball and surprisingly strong in contact carrying and tackling. SAR was more to blame defensively ,I saw JO speak to JM more then once to fill in why he joined the attacking or high defensive line. Very mature performance imo.

BFG
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by BFG » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:17 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:56 pm
BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:53 pm
Sam if you can't see that the footwork and pace isn't there then it's no use you and I getting into an overly lengthy debate about it!

I say it as I see it and it's not just White, Sam Aspland Robinson and Olowafela's footwork and pace off the mark have also been exposed at this level in my opinion.
Think we may have to agree on that bit. You're talking drivel. Owolofela did very well cleaning up everything at the back and generally beat the first tackle using footwork and pace.

We look effective when the forwards turn up and create some momentum for the backs. It just doesn't occur and although White provided a brief kick start for the consolation tries it's not enough.
After blaming BOC for Saints second try I'm afraid that I just can't take you seriously enough to bother too much about what you say!

Scott1
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by Scott1 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:40 pm

Terrible score so far at Brizzle,looks like points all round!

mightymouse
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Re: Tigers v Saints

Post by mightymouse » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:11 pm

The other major elephant in the room is the captain. Not only his captaincy or lack of it but his total inability to hit a barn door. He is a hard working industrious player in the loose and strong enough scrummager but that’s not enough. We cannot carry on squandering field position with his inability to throw in. His very first one was massively over thrown and threw us into problems immediately. It cannot carry on like that. Why would the coaching staff not realise that and get Kerr in much earlier.. it just makes no sense. Geordy Murphy has leave sentiment athe the stadium get and start making the right selection and replacement decisions

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