Squad Analysis

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JackFlashJonny
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Squad Analysis

Post by JackFlashJonny » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:41 pm

Hi Guys, doing this mainly as its a bad day at work but I would be interested to see everyone else feels on our squad too:

This is our senior squad only.

These are the players I am happy being a Tiger currently:

Jake Kerr Hooker- coming on well
Tom Youngs Hooker- not the force he was but gives it all
Dan Cole Prop- His England days could be numbered but still a great
Greg Bateman Prop- great squad resource
Ellis Genge Prop- Love him
Will Spencer Lock- Was hoping he would push on and still waiting to see him take over our second row
Harry Wells Lock- Has come on well
David Denton Back row- Injuries are not looking great but good when on the pitch
Will Evans Back row- Looks good at times surprised we haven't seen more of him
Guy Thompson Back row- Great player like him a lot
Sam Harrison Scrum-half- Sam is a great asset for us
Ben Youngs Scrum-half- Never seems to play that well for Tigers but he is very much a front foot SH so probably why
George Ford Fly-half- Proved himself this year in testing times
Manu Tuilagi Centre- Worth keeping him? Who knows it must be a very hard decision to make
Jonah Holmes Wing- Great player very happy with him
Jonny May Wing- Great player want us to get the ball to him more often
Telusa Veainu Wing- How we have missed him
George Worth Fullback- Not a frontline premiership 15 but coming on well

These I do not think are up to standard:

Ross McMillan Hooker- Stop gap
Jimmy Stevens Hooker- Stop gap
Graham Kitchener Lock- Showed promise but never hit the heights we thought he could
James Voss Lock- unknown for me
Valentino Mapa Back row- Seems to have gone off the boil
Brendon O'Connor Back row- Thought he was going to be amazing and has shown flashes but too injury prone
Mike Williams Back row- Off and never really set WR on fire at all
Joe Ford Fly-half- Not good enough
Matt Toomua Centre/Fly-half- Not worked out well never really looked anywhere near the player he was for Aus/Brum
Kyle Eastmond Centre- Doesn't really seem to do anything very well for us imo
Gareth Owen Centre- Had a few good games but mostly not up to standard and injury prone
Matt Smith Centre- Great squad player maybe just one season too many now
Leonardo Sarto v Wing- Not seen yet
Tom Varndell Wing- Looked disinterested versus Sarries
Mathew Tait Fullback- Great player but seems like retirement imminent

Not yet proven or undecided:

Tatafu Polota-Na Hooker- Not performing to standard at present but will hopefully return to form
Gaston Cortes Prop-?
David Feao Prop-?
Facundo Gigena Prop-?
Owen Hills Prop-?
Campese Ma'afu Prop-?
Michael Fitzgerald Lock- good squad player I just thought he would be more effective
Fred Tuilagi Back row- Is he coming through? One more season perhaps
Sione Kalamafoni Back row- great squad player who gives his all but not a front line 8
Adam Thompstone Wing- Gives his all and great squad player could easily be in keep also but I just think we need a clear out
Charlie Thacker Centre- Not stepped up yet


I look forward to being slated for my opinions on this :smt023

I would love to read all of yours! :smt030

It seems to me we have a large squad with not enough talent in it and compared to other teams do not seem to be getting much bang for our buck I would say!

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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by RagingBull » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:44 pm

Matt Toomua Centre/Fly-half- Not worked out well never really looked anywhere near the player he was for Aus/Brum
Do people forget how good he was last season?

JackFlashJonny
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by JackFlashJonny » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:50 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:44 pm
Matt Toomua Centre/Fly-half- Not worked out well never really looked anywhere near the player he was for Aus/Brum
Do people forget how good he was last season?
He has been nowhere near the player he is for Aus and Brumbies imo...granted he was better last season but we have not got a decent ROI from him imo

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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by drc_007 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:08 pm

Dave Denton looked great but out so long with head injury, must be a real concern.

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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by TTRITH » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:00 pm

Changing the wording of the categories slightly.. should add that I know a lot of this won't tie up with contracts etc. but just my take on the squad.

Would definately keep:

Jake Kerr - Hooker - First choice for me.
Tom Youngs - Hooker - 100% commitment to Tigers.
Jimmy Stevens - Hooker - 3rd/4th choice. If TPN was let go, would be reliable but not get in the way of Mahoney development.
Harry Mahoney - Hooker - deserves a senior contract, if nothing else to replace the gap left by McMillan (see below).
Dan Cole - Prop - Excellent form this season. Tigers legend.
Greg Bateman - Prop - grown into the Boris or Moreno role. Never first choice, but very useful second choice.
Ellis Genge - Prop - Worthy successor to Ayerza. Need to convince him his future is here and not at Bristol.
Joe Heyes - Prop - Deserves to be Coles deputy, especially with him now out of England reckoning.
Will Spencer - Lock - Injuries have hampered his start at Tigers, and red cards, but has plenty of promise.
Harry Wells - Lock - Deserves a run in the first team, but probably not first choice.
Sam Lewis - Lock - Could see him step up and take Williams role in the squad. Promising youth player who deserves a chance and could save cap space.
David Denton - Back row - Probably signed him about 3 years too late. Excellent player, but concerned about his concussion.
Guy Thompson - Back row - Easily the best back rower at the club at the moment. Hopefully the injuries will not affect this.
Sione Kalamafoni - Back row - 100% for effort, however not the front line 8 we are sorely missing.
Tommy Reffell - Back Row - Would promote to senior side and give a long term contract too. Excellent potential and could replace Evans in squad.
Ben White - Scrum Half - Promising scrum half. Holds in own in the first team. Would benefit from an ex-SH on the coaching set up.
Harry Simmons - Scrum Half - See above.
George Ford - Fly-half - Been brilliant this season. Firmly believe he needs real competition to see him at his best.
Manu Tuilagi - Centre - Getting close to his best. Really hope we secure him but could understand if he does leave.
Matt Smith - Centre - Controversal, but with all the upheaval rumoured this summer, he'd be worth keeping around.
Jonny May - Wing - Need to use him more, but still a fantastic try scoring record.
Telusa Veainu - Wing - Miss him running those amazing lines. Think we'd see more out of him on the wing than at full back.
Jordan Olowofela - Wing - Has real potential. Blown hot and cold this season, but feel we'd benefit giving him more time.
Sam Apsland-Robinson - Wing - Again, another with potential. Trust him to do a job if needed and free up cap space.
George Worth - Fullback - Excellent back up to Worth, squad player but could challenge similarly to Wells.
Jonah Holmes - Full back - First choice full back IMO. Sign him up!

Unsure a.k.a if we kept I wouldn't mind, but same if they were to go.

Gaston Cortes - Prop - Not seen enough of him. Fourth choice IMO, could Grahamslaw step up instead?
Owen Hills - Prop - How badly have his injuries impacted him? Would Lines be a better option in the squad?
James Voss - Lock - Promising when he signed. Not sure how well he's done on loan this year.
Fred Tuilagi - Back row - Seems to be getting better, but are our developed back rowers better?
Ben Youngs - Scrum-half - If you look at his Tigers career as a whole he's been brilliant, but not as often in recent years. Could benefit from both a move or a chance of approach at Tigers.
Tom Hardwick - Fly Half - Would be happy to see him stay a Tiger, but wages may cause that to be an issue.
Kyle Eastmond - Centre - I like him, although I seem to be in a minority.
Charlie Thacker - Centre - Not set the world on fire, but would depend on who we get through the door this summer.
Adam Thompstone - Wing - If we sign another back 3 player, then he could be allowed to leave. Otherwise, I'd keep him.

Players I'd look to move on:

Tatafu Polota-Nau - Hooker - Not justifying his wage IMO. Kerr is a better option, especially at line out.
Ross McMillan - Hooker - Was only ever a stop gap for injuries.
Campese Ma'afu - Prop - Was only signed as injury dispensation.
Michael Fitzgerald - Lock - Hasn't been a poor player for Tigers, but him leaving frees up squad places for new second rows.
Valentino Mapalangi - Back row - Hasn't reached his potential.
Brendon O'Connor - Back row - Whether injuries or just struggled to adapt, I don't think his move has been a success. Will enjoy Japan if that's where he goes.
Sam Harrison - Scrum-half - Sam is a very good player, however with Simmons and White coming through, I just don't think the space is there for him, and he's too good to be 3rd choice.
Joe Ford - Fly-half - Not good enough. Not is fault, but will never challenge George.
Gareth Owen - Centre - He's never really won me over.
Leonardo Sarto - Wing - Maybe a bit harsh to put him in here.
Tom Varndell - Wing - Not a long term option.

Players leaving

Graham Kitchener - Lock - Not been the same player for a while. Has struggled with being the main line-out caller IMO. Will do well at Worcester.
Will Evans - Back row - If it wasn't for injuries, would probably have been first choice openside by now. If he stays fit, Quins have a brilliant signing.
Mike Williams - Back row - Someone summed it up for me. "The idea of Williams playing was always better than the reality."
Matt Toomua - Centre/Fly-half - Has shown brilliance at Tigers, and I think we'd have seen a lot more from him had Manu been fit.
Mathew Tait - Fullback - Retirement confirmed today.

Shopping list

2x Lock (Calum Green + A. N. Other)
1x No. 8
1x Fly Half (Noel Reid?)
2x Inside Centre
1x Outside Centre (Jaco Taute?)
1x Back 3 player

+ Jordan Taufua
Last edited by TTRITH on Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sam16111986
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:01 pm

Hooker - Kerr, Youngs, TPN and Stevens are all under contract for next season (I think). That is fine for next season and we can target additions next summer. Mahoney should also be line for more game time next season.

Prop - Genge, Cole, Bateman, Heyes, Gigena and then three of Cortes, Feao, Leatinga (sp?) and Ma'afu plus the young lads on the way through is fine.


Lock - Wells, Spencer, Green, Voss and Jordan. Assuming that Fitzgerald is following Kitchener out the door. Need a big unit here, ideally a powerful ball carrier. Green is a good acquisition for the set piece.


Backrow - Denton, Taufua, Kalamafoni, Thomson and Reffell. I would hope we'd keep one of Evans or BOC as well, if not we might need another openside though there are a number of young lads with promise queuing up so will depend on how we feel their development is going. 6 and 8 is a far bigger concern, Williams is gone and the ongoing concussion issues with Denton are worrying. We could do with at least one if not two more units signed (really two if both BOC and Evans go and Thomson is solely a 7). Fred Tuilagi and the development lads will be pushing on with a bit of luck but we need really need ball carriers and big hitters with some nous. Money needs spending here, Taufua is a good start.


Scrum half - Youngs, Harrison, White and Simmons. Fine.


Flyhalf - Ford, Hardwick, Costelow and Reid can cover here, Worth as well. Fine.


Centre - Reid, Eastmond, Manu, Taute with Worth, SAR and Owlofela to cover. If Manu doesn't sign on we'll need a big hitting centre. If we can sign a utility back with some size that could help us out as well.


Back three - May, Holmes, TV, Worth, Thompstone, Owlofela and SAR. Could do with a more powerful utility option as mentioned above but otherwise fine. Some of young academy lads look good and could come in at times next season.

JackFlashJonny
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by JackFlashJonny » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:05 pm

TTRITH wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:00 pm
Changing the wording of the categories slightly..

Would definately keep:

Jake Kerr - Hooker - First choice for me.
Tom Youngs - Hooker - 100% commitment to Tigers.
Jimmy Stevens - Hooker - 3rd/4th choice. If TPN was let go, would be reliable but not get in the way of Mahoney development.
Harry Mahoney - Hooker - deserves a senior contract, if nothing else to replace the gap left by McMillan (see below).
Dan Cole - Prop - Excellent form this season. Tigers legend.
Greg Bateman - Prop - grown into the Boris or Moreno role. Never first choice, but very useful second choice.
Ellis Genge - Prop - Worthy successor to Ayerza. Need to convince him his future is here and not at Bristol.
Joe Heyes - Prop - Deserves to be Coles deputy, especially with him now out of England reckoning.
Will Spencer - Lock - Injuries have hampered his start at Tigers, and red cards, but has plenty of promise.
Harry Wells - Lock - Deserves a run in the first team, but probably not first choice.
Sam Lewis - Lock - Could see him step up and take Williams role in the squad. Promising youth player who deserves a chance and could save cap space.
David Denton - Back row - Probably signed him about 3 years too late. Excellent player, but concerned about his concussion.
Guy Thompson - Back row - Easily the best back rower at the club at the moment. Hopefully the injuries will not affect this.
Sione Kalamafoni - Back row - 100% for effort, however not the front line 8 we are sorely missing.
Tommy Reffell - Back Row - Would promote to senior side and give a long term contract too. Excellent potential and could replace Evans in squad.
Ben White - Scrum Half - Promising scrum half. Holds in own in the first team. Would benefit from an ex-SH on the coaching set up.
Harry Simmons - Scrum Half - See above.
George Ford - Fly-half - Been brilliant this season. Firmly believe he needs real competition to see him at his best.
Manu Tuilagi - Centre - Getting close to his best. Really hope we secure him but could understand if he does leave.
Matt Smith - Centre - Controversal, but with all the upheaval rumoured this summer, he'd be worth keeping around.
Jonny May - Wing - Need to use him more, but still a fantastic try scoring record.
Telusa Veainu - Wing - Miss him running those amazing lines. Think we'd see more out of him on the wing than at full back.
Jordan Olowofela - Wing - Has real potential. Blown hot and cold this season, but feel we'd benefit giving him more time.
Sam Apsland-Robinson - Wing - Again, another with potential. Trust him to do a job if needed and free up cap space.
George Worth - Fullback - Excellent back up to Worth, squad player but could challenge similarly to Wells.
Jonah Holmes - Full back - First choice full back IMO. Sign him up!

Unsure a.k.a if we kept I wouldn't mind, but same if they were to go.

Gaston Cortes - Prop - Not seen enough of him. Fourth choice IMO, could Grahamslaw step up instead?
Owen Hills - Prop - How badly have his injuries impacted him? Would Lines be a better option in the squad?
James Voss - Lock - Promising when he signed. Not sure how well he's done on loan this year.
Fred Tuilagi - Back row - Seems to be getting better, but are our developed back rowers better?
Ben Youngs - Scrum-half - If you look at his Tigers career as a whole he's been brilliant, but not as often in recent years. Could benefit from both a move or a chance of approach at Tigers.
Tom Hardwick - Fly Half - Would be happy to see him stay a Tiger, but wages may cause that to be an issue.
Kyle Eastmond - Centre - I like him, although I seem to be in a minority.
Charlie Thacker - Centre - Not set the world on fire, but would depend on who we get through the door this summer.
Adam Thompstone - Wing - If we sign another back 3 player, then he could be allowed to leave. Otherwise, I'd keep him.

Players I'd look to move on:

Tatafu Polota-Nau - Hooker - Not justifying his wage IMO. Kerr is a better option, especially at line out.
Ross McMillan - Hooker - Was only ever a stop gap for injuries.
Campese Ma'afu - Prop - Was only signed as injury dispensation.
Michael Fitzgerald - Lock - Hasn't been a poor player for Tigers, but him leaving frees up squad places for new second rows.
Valentino Mapalangi - Back row - Hasn't reached his potential.
Brendon O'Connor - Back row - Whether injuries or just struggled to adapt, I don't think his move has been a success. Will enjoy Japan if that's where he goes.
Sam Harrison - Scrum-half - Sam is a very good player, however with Simmons and White coming through, I just don't think the space is there for him, and he's too good to be 3rd choice.
Joe Ford - Fly-half - Not good enough. Not is fault, but will never challenge George.
Gareth Owen - Centre - He's never really won me over.
Leonardo Sarto - Wing - Maybe a bit harsh to put him in here.
Tom Varndell - Wing - Not a long term option.

Players leaving

Graham Kitchener - Lock - Not been the same player for a while. Has struggled with being the main line-out caller IMO. Will do well at Worcester.
Will Evans - Back row - If it wasn't for injuries, would probably have been first choice openside by now. If he stays fit, Quins have a brilliant signing.
Mike Williams - Back row - Someone summed it up for me. "The idea of Williams playing was always better than the reality."
Matt Toomua - Centre/Fly-half - Has shown brilliance at Tigers, and I think we'd have seen a lot more from him had Manu been fit.
Mathew Tait - Fullback - Retirement confirmed today.

Shopping list

2x Lock (Calum Green + A. N. Other)
1x No. 8
1x Fly Half (Noel Reid?)
2x Inside Centre
1x Outside Centre (Jaco Taute?)
1x Back 3 player

+ Jordan Taufua
Seems like your thoughts are very similar to mine- nice in depth analysis too :smt023

How we haven't signed a top 8 in the last 5 plus years since TTE had his stellar season is just beyond me :smt017

JP14
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by JP14 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:59 pm

I’m warming to Ma’afu a little bit and wouldn’t minded if he stayed next season (seems like Stanko has done well with the bloke), in fact I would prefer if all props stayed, we’ve not seen enough of Fe’ao or Cortes due to fitness but we need to hold onto them in my opinion.
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Scott1
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by Scott1 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:50 pm

What good is all this though if the real problem is a poor coaching team? (I've always said that Baxter and Co,McCall and Co,Dai Young and Ackermann for eg would do better with this group of players)

Dangerous4
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by Dangerous4 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:04 pm

I would go along with most of the above posts, but I don't know the contract situations.

It's tragic that we are losing Will Evans, as he has masses of potential. My priorities are a number 8, and two real beasts as flankers. Obviously other positions need filling also.

ay2oh
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by ay2oh » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:21 pm

What is wrong with Thompson and Taufua as flankers.?
A2O

Spicer
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by Spicer » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:41 pm

I thought Taufua was being signed to play at 8? With Kalamafoni playing at his more natural blindside flanker position.

Scott1
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by Scott1 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:48 pm

I'm hoping Taufua is at 6 and Denton at 8 if recovered. Kala can be 6/8 cover.

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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by AngusMcCoatup » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:54 pm

A very well constructed analysis ~ thanks JFJ & TTRITH.
May I suggest this is copied & pasted to Simon Cohen, Ben Kay & Rory so at least they can introduce themselves to the mentioned players. :smt027
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ABClub
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by ABClub » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:27 pm

This seems to be squad so for with those in-contract for next season, confirmed extensions and announced signing.

1.Genge, Bateman, Gigena
2.Kerr, Youngs, TPN
3.Cole, Heyes, Feao
4.Wells
5.Spencer
6.Tuafau, Lewis
7.Thompson, Reffell
8.Kalamafoni, Denton

9.Youngs, Harrison, White, Simmons
10.G Ford, Hardwick

11.May, Olowofela
12.Eastmond
13.
14.Holmes
15.Veainu, Worth

From that, the building blocks of what posters here want are falling into place. The two barest sections start filling in by adding the expected but not confirmed Green, Reid and Taute.

Possible re-signings of Manu, Sarto and Thompstone could add to the backs as well.

It seems from posts here that TPN and Eastmond are the two players in contract that questions are being asked of. TPN to me just looks knackered similar to Cole last season. At 33, with 87 tests under his belt, he's played a lot of rugby. The issue for Tigers is that burnout will be unlikely to improve in a RWC year.

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