Wales v England

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G.K
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Re: Wales v England

Post by G.K » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:47 am

Agree with earlier comments. I thought in the last two games that the kicking worked mainly because of mistakes in the Irish and French back three and that to keep relying on the opposition making such mistakes would go badly wrong at some point. Wales have a good back 3 who are good under the high ball and at counterattacking so the last thing you want is to kick to them poorly.

Even when it was obviously not working they persisted with this stupid approach. This was a major tactical error on the part of a supposed top coach. Out thought? Not sure there is too much thought involved with EJ in charge.

Now onto Manu, his attribute is the ability to make line breaks and commit defenders, this means he needs the ball and someone on his shoulder running a line. I forget he was on then pitch at times as he never got the ball - it was one pass, two pass and hoof the ball away far too often, or just heads down and run into contact, often resulting in a penalty. Similar story with May - needs the ball in space, never got it. Slade was also poor and Nowell ineffective.

Subs or rather lack of them - we have Ford and Robson on the bench who could have turned the game when it was obvious the dull first choice halfbacks were getting nowhere. I don't think they even got on the pitch did they? And why pick Genge then just give him a few minutes at the end when the game is pretty much gone.

For me only Curry and Wilson stood out as having a decent game, the rest of them were average at best and the tactics shockingly amateurish.

Oh and Jaco Peyper proves yet again that he should not be allowed anywhere near a tier one Rugby match. AWJ had him wrapped around his little finger and got away with loads of stuff.
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by sapajo » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:24 am

Englands kicking game yesterday seemed straight out of the Tigers only play book, ie kick the ball away, poor chase and kick straight down the throat of an excellent opposition counter attacking back 3. To keep doing the same thing over and over again and hope for a different outcome is demonstrably insane. Perhaps England will now modify their game plan, hope and pray that Tigers shall follow suit.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

Leicestertinytiger
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Re: Wales v England

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:33 am

G.K wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:47 am
Agree with earlier comments. I thought in the last two games that the kicking worked mainly because of mistakes in the Irish and French back three and that to keep relying on the opposition making such mistakes would go badly wrong at some point. Wales have a good back 3 who are good under the high ball and at counterattacking so the last thing you want is to kick to them poorly.

Even when it was obviously not working they persisted with this stupid approach. This was a major tactical error on the part of a supposed top coach. Out thought? Not sure there is too much thought involved with EJ in charge.

Now onto Manu, his attribute is the ability to make line breaks and commit defenders, this means he needs the ball and someone on his shoulder running a line. I forget he was on then pitch at times as he never got the ball - it was one pass, two pass and hoof the ball away far too often, or just heads down and run into contact, often resulting in a penalty. Similar story with May - needs the ball in space, never got it. Slade was also poor and Nowell ineffective.

Subs or rather lack of them - we have Ford and Robson on the bench who could have turned the game when it was obvious the dull first choice halfbacks were getting nowhere. I don't think they even got on the pitch did they? And why pick Genge then just give him a few minutes at the end when the game is pretty much gone.

For me only Curry and Wilson stood out as having a decent game, the rest of them were average at best and the tactics shockingly amateurish.

Oh and Jaco Peyper proves yet again that he should not be allowed anywhere near a tier one Rugby match. AWJ had him wrapped around his little finger and got away with loads of stuff.
Bit harsh on Nowell, thought he had a decent game with the limited ball he had. Strong in contact and made a good break. Kruis for me also played well in the first half leading the defence, felt we lost something when he went off.

Slade is a very talented player but for me there is something that just doesn’t work with him at this level. He’s too inconsistent and is prone to slipping off the tackle when someone goes on the outside. Obviously he hasn’t got loads of caps and can improve, the ability is there, just never thought he has owned the 13 shirt. Being interesting when Joseph is back or Marchant gets a chance, he’s been on fire for Harlequins.

Role reversal with the subs the last two seasons, Jones used to label them finishers and trust them to get the job done. Why didn’t he bring on Robson and Ford to finish the game off with 20 minutes to go and get another try. Both great players and better attackers.

I guess England aren’t suddenly a bad team. We’ll bounce back and still in with a chance of winning, just not in our hands anymore.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by BFG » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:03 am

What really surprised me about yesterday's match was England failure to realise that Wales would pose more of a breakdown threat to slow ball and the naivity in not going through more phases in midfield with Manu and Slade before attacking wider be it through hands or kicking in behind.
It almost seemed as if they expected the same to happen against Wales that had happened against Ireland and France, without noting that Ireland hardly put anyone into the breakdown and France are not the fittest and often lack intensity away from home anyway.
England aren't a bad team but the planning was amateurish in my opinion!

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Re: Wales v England

Post by JP14 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:18 am

BFG wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:03 am
What really surprised me about yesterday's match was England failure to realise that Wales would pose more of a breakdown threat to slow ball and the naivity in not going through more phases in midfield with Manu and Slade before attacking wider be it through hands or kicking in behind.
It almost seemed as if they expected the same to happen against Wales that had happened against Ireland and France, without noting that Ireland hardly put anyone into the breakdown and France are not the fittest and often lack intensity away from home anyway.
England aren't a bad team but the planning was amateurish in my opinion!
Agreed.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Louis
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Re: Wales v England

Post by Louis » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:22 am

Yesterday the England team committed one of the worst rugby crimes possible: The made Welsh rugby fans happy.

A crime nearly on a par with making Australian rugby fans happy.

For shame.

(Although, I think the analysis above is spot on. When kicking stops working, stop kicking!!)

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Re: Wales v England

Post by Cagey Tiger » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:37 am

BigDan50 wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:35 am
The way Ben Youngster played yesterday should signal the end of his England career, his kicking was well below the standard of a professing scrum half, his passing was slow and laboured giving Farrell no time to get the back line into the game and when was the last time you saw him make a sniping run and take on the opposition back row. Couldn't understand why Robson wasn't given any decent game time to let us know what he is capable of at international level.
Very poor game management by Eddie Jones.
In Ben's defence, wherever possible, Wales, especially AWJ, were counter-rucking as Ben was trying to get the ball out, often knocking backwards or sideways. Obviously a deliberate tactic to slow him down and put him off.

Did Manu get passed the ball at all in the 1st half? I'm pretty sure that he tackled many more times than he was passed the ball. Probably ditto Slade. And it wasnt because they were running dumy lines. The last two games, the back line varied the running and kicking with everyone bar Manu kicking at some point. Yesterday it was almost entirely OF and Ben with the rest of the back line being spectators.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by TigerCam » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:02 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:16 pm
I dont want to jinx it but if we play at our best we will be too much for Wales,theres hardly anyone in their 23 I would swap with. But everything goes out the window in these games. England by 5
You Jinks! :smt030

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Re: Wales v England

Post by TigerCam » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:13 pm

JP14 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:10 pm
Sinckler actually played well, a 20 tackle count from a tighthead cannot be understated.
Despite all the bad press he is getting; he is young and maybe a bit hot-headed for now but Gatland had no problems putting him in a lions shirt so leave the lad be. He needs to take a leaf out of Julian White's book and not get wound up, but still remain a thorn in the proverbial. If memory serves me right, it was White fronting up against a young Cian Healy at Thomond park. Healy was getting mullered by White is the set piece and he threw a punch at White who managed to dodge it and just smiled back - Healy's game was over from that point. Tigers won and my mate who had a shed load of dosh on Ollie Smith scoring the first try, which he did, and we had a really good night out in Dublin on the winnings.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by Dangerous4 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:25 pm

Never ever take the Welsh for granted, especially in Cardiff. England really just played into their hands, and kept on doing so. Not much in the way of creativity from England, and the Welsh deserved their win.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by amazing tiger » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:09 am

Cagey Tiger wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:37 am
BigDan50 wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:35 am
The way Ben Youngster played yesterday should signal the end of his England career, his kicking was well below the standard of a professing scrum half, his passing was slow and laboured giving Farrell no time to get the back line into the game and when was the last time you saw him make a sniping run and take on the opposition back row. Couldn't understand why Robson wasn't given any decent game time to let us know what he is capable of at international level.
Very poor game management by Eddie Jones.
In Ben's defence, wherever possible, Wales, especially AWJ, were counter-rucking as Ben was trying to get the ball out, often knocking backwards or sideways. Obviously a deliberate tactic to slow him down and put him off.

Did Manu get passed the ball at all in the 1st half? I'm pretty sure that he tackled many more times than he was passed the ball. Probably ditto Slade. And it wasnt because they were running dumy lines. The last two games, the back line varied the running and kicking with everyone bar Manu kicking at some point. Yesterday it was almost entirely OF and Ben with the rest of the back line being spectators.
Very harsh to just single out Ben for a bad performance. Yes he didn't have a great game but it wasn't entirely his fault as no real clean ball was won in their 22. Find it hard to believe a player who has been on 1 lions tour and would have gone on 2 if not for personal circumstances and has played so many games for Leicester and England gets so much stick on this forum

Scott1
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Re: Wales v England

Post by Scott1 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:58 am

As regards to BY this is gentle ribbing,go on some neutral sites, according to them he's fully to blame!

ellis9
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Re: Wales v England

Post by ellis9 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:09 am

No one was criticising Youngs in the opening 2 games.

The whole team was poor against Wales.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by DingDong » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:17 am

BigDan50 wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:35 am
...and when was the last time you saw him make a sniping run and take on the opposition back row
When there was an opportunity, and against Wales there wasn't! BY has the intelligence to know when AND when not to. Very happy with his passing and decision making under the circumstances, kicks were effective on May's wing but Nowell seemed off target on the chase on his wing. First choice still for me!

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