Wales v England

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Stephen18
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Re: Wales v England

Post by Stephen18 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:51 pm

Just seem to have reverted back to the team of last year, where they didn’t have a plan b and Jones refused to bring in the subs who could have changed the pace of the game with Genge, Ford and Robson. And again Daly showed his weakness under the high ball all teams are going to target that.

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Wales v England

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:53 pm

how many carries did Manu even get

chewbacca
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Re: Wales v England

Post by chewbacca » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:53 pm

Looked like England had been watching Tigers play the kicking from hand was so poor.
I'm not cynical just experienced

DevonTiger
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Re: Wales v England

Post by DevonTiger » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:58 pm

Poor performance from England. OF played poorly it seemed he’d gone back to days of old of not being able to dictate the play as a FH. Manu and Slade not used, no real plan B today. Should Dan Cole have been dropped? Sinker blows hot and cold and is always one step away from blowing up, don’t get me wrong having an edge is good but when you step over it disrupts your play. Wales targeted him and it paid off.
Let hope Johnny May’s injury isn’t significant.

mol2
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Re: Wales v England

Post by mol2 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:06 pm

Kicking is fine if the opposition overcommit to he defensive line like Ireland or are slow getting back and unfit like France.

However simply hoofing it and hoping Johnny May will outrun the defence as your only tactic was exposed. The Wales back three are not mugs and were ready for it. Indeed they are probably the team best equipped to cope with a kicking game so why do it and why persist with it when it wasn't working?

When we took the ball up in hand in the first half we seemed in control. When Billy Vunipola got tired there was nobody on the bench to continue the rumble - dropping Hughes from the bench for a non-entity in Shields was plain daft. 4 minutes of Genge was pointless when the game was lost.
Ford should have come on midway through the second half.
Lawes' injury may be a blessing in disguise - for all his spectacular hits he is underpowered in the scrum.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by JP14 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:10 pm

Sinckler actually played well, a 20 tackle count from a tighthead cannot be understated.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Leicestertinytiger
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Re: Wales v England

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:23 pm

JP14 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:10 pm
Sinckler actually played well, a 20 tackle count from a tighthead cannot be understated.
Yeah agreed. Thought he played really well and is making the England no.3 shirt his own. Good all round player which unfortunately Cole isn’t anymore.

Be interesting next game, do we mix up and give Genge, Ford, Devoto etc a run out or stick with the same team. Hopefully we’ll get some rotation.

Mark62
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Re: Wales v England

Post by Mark62 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:48 pm

Thought Sinckler did ok was subbed because of the threatened yellow.

Mako was missed hugely Moon was largely anonymous so can’t understand why Ellis only got 4 minutes and for one scrum he had Shields was behind him

Would like to see Ellis get a start next week with Itoje behind him.

Midfield of Ford Farrell and Manu would be good too

Andy W
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Re: Wales v England

Post by Andy W » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:55 pm

Jeez, Farrell was poor.

His decision making was off, and then the execution of said decisions was sub standard. Not what you need from your captain, and, not for the first time, he is unable to be the rallying point to get England back into a game that is starting to go wrong.

I couldn't believe England went with the same strategy. You could understand kicking against Ireland, whose first up defence is usually very strong, and who had picked players out of position. Also France, as, again, players picked out of position, and the analysts had figured out that there would likely be space in behind.

But Wales have a better back 3, and it was unlikely that England would dominate in the air. So, just because it had worked in the first two games, for good reasons, didn't mean it would work again, and when the premise was decidedly more tenuous.

Obviously England didn't kick quite as well anyway, but it would have been too much to expect the quality of their kicking versus Ireland, which was pretty much world-leading, to be easily replicated.

It is often the case that when you stop playing then it is very difficult to start again when you suddenly need to.

Jaco is a bit random as a ref, and probably let the Welsh boys hang out the back of England rucks a bit much, with one example from AWJ being ridiculous. Still, they were playing to the ref, were ultimately more professional, and succeeded in slowing the ball down.

Am always amazed at how fit the Welsh are, and how they get stronger through the game. This does cause problems if your plan is to play without the ball, with a low possession count, and simply make a lot of tackles.

Ultimately, England might have been better off picking Brown than Daly, with these tactics, although they will say that they had planned for him to see more of the ball I suppose.

Still, this is yet another example of the wheels falling off the chariot in a huge game away to a Celtic nation, and where the initial strategy is arguably flawed, or at least debatable, and the team can't even begin to find its way towards a plan B.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by Coleshillad » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:24 pm

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:48 pm
JP14 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:43 pm
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:43 pm
Absolutely awful display by England in the second half. For me Gatland totally outsmarted Jones.

We knew there was a 2 week break in which Wales would have studied our gameplay. Therefore we should have spent those 2 weeks in adopting a different approach. Arrogant by us to not change up our game.

Firstly, we should have scaled back on the kicking and played with quicker ball into the wide channels. Secondly, dialed back on the blitz and drifted across. We would have known the Welsh would have been studying the first games in absolute minute detail.

Farrell has been great the first two games but was blunt in this game. When ahead we should have been going for the jugular, but seemed to just stop playing and give away stupid penalties. Maybe biased but why not bring on Ford the attacking player and really go for the win.
Or Genge, absolute waste to bring him on with only 4 minutes to go!
Talk about all the hard work in the first two games being wasted! Hopefully Ireland can do us a favour against Wales.
All above, absolutely spot on. One dimensional. Poor management of substitutes. No plan B, and, it's not the 1st time we've seen this scenario with Eddie. Is it the coaching? Or captaincy on the field? It's one of those. Individuals played well generally. Just a few silly mistakes. GM take note. Kicking is only one of many tactical options. May tried hard, and did as much as he could. Manu was missing in the 1st half, and not his fault. George Ford should have come on after 60 minutes with a new plan, a new strategy.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by chewbacca » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:33 pm

Without doubt the Wales back 3 are a different class to the others in the competition so if a kicking game was to be the main strategy then it had to be executed with extreme precision. It wasn't. I doubt that against that opposition it was a viable tactic anyway. Wales played well and Gatland out thought Jones. Our centres might as well have not been on the field.
I'm not cynical just experienced

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Re: Wales v England

Post by G.K » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:45 pm

chewbacca wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:53 pm
Looked like England had been watching Tigers play the kicking from hand was so poor.
Yes the absolute brain dead Rugby and lack of any discernable tactics other one, two, hoof it away and then defend did remind me of Tigers. Today was absolutely awful, until Manu did a line break on 59 minutes I saw no threats at all from the backs. I'll be glad when 'Trojan Horse' Eddie moves on with his Finshers and Apprentices and :censored:.
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

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Re: Wales v England

Post by JP14 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:11 am

Mark62 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:48 pm
Thought Sinckler did ok was subbed because of the threatened yellow.

Mako was missed hugely Moon was largely anonymous so can’t understand why Ellis only got 4 minutes and for one scrum he had Shields was behind him

Would like to see Ellis get a start next week with Itoje behind him.

Midfield of Ford Farrell and Manu would be good too
I will disagree slightly, Moon was very good in defence too, put Captain Overrated on his backside.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

BigDan50
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Re: Wales v England

Post by BigDan50 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:35 am

The way Ben Youngster played yesterday should signal the end of his England career, his kicking was well below the standard of a professing scrum half, his passing was slow and laboured giving Farrell no time to get the back line into the game and when was the last time you saw him make a sniping run and take on the opposition back row. Couldn't understand why Robson wasn't given any decent game time to let us know what he is capable of at international level.
Very poor game management by Eddie Jones.

BigDan50
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Re: Wales v England

Post by BigDan50 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:42 am

Ben Young not Youngster, flipping predictive text.

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