Proof if proof were needed

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Crumblies
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Proof if proof were needed

Post by Crumblies » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:57 pm

[email protected] is at Allianz Park where @Saracens are missing six England players but have still named 10 internationals.

plus absence of Liam Williams and Jacques Burger, Sean Maitland, Marcello Bosch et all.

all within the salary cap of course? Its a joke competition!

Yorkietiger
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by Yorkietiger » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:04 pm

+1

TigerCam
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by TigerCam » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:17 pm

Just goes to shows how naive the Tigers are if they cannot use the salary cap to their advantage? If the Sarries have used some inventive accounting then why aren't the Tigers? It must be legal otherwise the other clubs would call foul? Where is the proof? Sarries have invested well in their youth. I have watched Goode and Spencer play for Cambridge in their early days and Sarries have nurtured them and others to what they are today - really good players that buy into a really good system so it appears? IMO the Tigers over the past seasons do not seem to have the patience nor ability to nurture the youngsters, Lewington as an example?

Scott1
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by Scott1 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:21 pm

Excuses excuses,Chiefs seem to do alright!!!

Dangerous4
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by Dangerous4 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:26 pm

, There are things other than salary caps. They are the old fashioned non cash items. I've said it elsewhere. New cars, free holidays, etc. etc. Need I say more?

WiggoTiger
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by WiggoTiger » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:26 pm

Don't forget we are a PLC.
A TIGER TILL I DIE!!
Supporting since 1977 and proud of it!!

fortysix
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by fortysix » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:58 am

So what if we are a PLC.
Get some creative accountants.
Our signings over the last seven years have been a joke.. either long term injured -----------or useless.
With exceptions..

Smudge
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by Smudge » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:21 am

But why was the salary cap brought in and who by? It was agreed by all the premiership clubs (plus London Irish) so that our game would not go the way of "Wendyball" and success being bought by the club who could spend the most.
It has worked to a greater extent and most teams are now capable of beating all the others except the club that is top because they have cheated on the salary cap.
@robvickerman is at Allianz Park where @Saracens are missing six England players but have still named 10 internationals.plus absence of Liam Williams and Jacques Burger, Sean Maitland, Marcello Bosch et all.
all within the salary cap of course? Its a joke competition!
So no Tigercam, we should not cheat the salary cap. It is there for a very good reason. We should prosecute Saffacens for said cheating and treat them as the "Pariahs" they are instead of praising them and their play. They should not drag us down to their level.
A life long Tiger

voice of the crumbie
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by voice of the crumbie » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:38 am

Dangerous4 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:26 pm
, There are things other than salary caps. They are the old fashioned non cash items. I've said it elsewhere. New cars, free holidays, etc. etc. Need I say more?
I have to admit that I do not have an in-depth knowledge of what is and is not policed under the salary cap. However I would imagine that these sorts of "benefits in kind" (to use an income tax related term) would be included. However if those with greater knowledge advise otherwise then I bow to their greater understanding of such matters.
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

trendylfj
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by trendylfj » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:39 am

voice of the crumbie wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:38 am
Dangerous4 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:26 pm
, There are things other than salary caps. They are the old fashioned non cash items. I've said it elsewhere. New cars, free holidays, etc. etc. Need I say more?
I have to admit that I do not have an in-depth knowledge of what is and is not policed under the salary cap. However I would imagine that these sorts of "benefits in kind" (to use an income tax related term) would be included. However if those with greater knowledge advise otherwise then I bow to their greater understanding of such matters.
Just part of the scope for credits that are available
Senior Ceiling credits
(a) Home Grown Senior Player Credits
In respect of the Senior Ceiling for the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year, a Club shall be entitled
to Home Grown Senior Player Credits of up to £600,000, subject to 3.2(b)(ii) below,
at a maximum rate of £50,000 for each of its Home Grown Senior Players, and in each
case, excluding any Players to whom paragraphs 2 (j), (l) or (q) of Schedule 1 apply
during the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year save for any element of Salary that is required to
be included in the Senior Ceiling in relation to such Players as provided for in these
Regulations.
(b) Senior EPS and International Player Credits
1. Where a Club is unable to select a Player in its squad for either an [Aviva]
Premiership or European Champions or Challenge Cup match as a result of that
Player (i) being selected in a match day squad by his national union and released
in accordance with World Rugby Regulation 9 or (ii) are absent under the terms of
the Heads of Agreement (or any successor of this agreement) (which includes EPS
Rest and Blocked weeks as defined in the Professional Game Agreement (or any
successor of this agreement) or (iii) released in accordance with any relevant PRL
Board Policy, and subject to Regulation 3.2(b)4 below, there shall be:
A. For any International Qualified Player, who is not a Senior EPS Player, a
£10,000 per [Aviva] Premiership or European Champions or Challenge Cup
match credit (“International Variable Player Credit”);
Hehehehehehehehe

mol2
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by mol2 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:47 am

For the salary cap to work - all sides need to accept the principle as it is to easy to find ways around it that the clubs cannot police. Which is why there have never been any proven major breaches of the cap with significant punishments applied.

As for us breaching the salary cap. If we wanted to do we have the cash? It's easy to say one or other club is breaching it but to breach it you need the income to do so or sponsors to do it for you.

If clubs don't approve of the salary cap then they should remove it but there may be consequences.

ourla
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by ourla » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:58 am

We had an Aussie international missing standard kicks at goal.

We had a Welsh international making a mess of dealing with a long kick into space.

Some of our squad players are just not good enough (Owen for one). You don't need to pay any more - there are players that would take his wages and play better.

For 60-odd minutes we had them on a tight leash.

A couple of years back every one was having a go at Bath and Wasps on the cap. Now they struggling a bit it's all gone quiet.

In short, this is not a salary cap issue.
You're either in or you're out

Smudge
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by Smudge » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:07 am

If it's not properly policed you get cheats like Sarries walking away with the title.
If we scrap it, we will end up like "Wendyball" and only those clubs able to regularly spend squillions can compete.Those that can't, go under. Look what happened at Toulon. They came from nothing and bought in most of the world's best players, thereby effectively buying the European title. Do we really want that here?

I don't know why the EPL chose not to investigate and properly punish the offenders but by not doing so, have enabled the currant farce to perpetuate. Cheats DO prosper.
A life long Tiger

AntG
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by AntG » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:07 pm

ourla wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:58 am
We had an Aussie international missing standard kicks at goal.

We had a Welsh international making a mess of dealing with a long kick into space.

Some of our squad players are just not good enough (Owen for one). You don't need to pay any more - there are players that would take his wages and play better.

For 60-odd minutes we had them on a tight leash.

A couple of years back every one was having a go at Bath and Wasps on the cap. Now they struggling a bit it's all gone quiet.

In short, this is not a salary cap issue.
Absolutely spot on @Ourla - for an independent and quite enlightening view of how the salary cap works/doesn't work I suggest everyone listen to the excellent Eggchasers RugbyPodcast from last week - really insightful on what is an isn't included. For those of you more inclined to read the details go here: https://www.premiershiprugby.com/about-us/salary-cap/

Smudge
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Re: Proof if proof were needed

Post by Smudge » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:35 pm

There is nothing in that which I and any other supporter has not seen
The rules and procedures are no different to the Inland revenue or any other regulatory authority.
We know it is supposed to be properly policed and the procedures laid down for overseeing them.
Yet breaches occur all the time. The less the procedures are followed the more they are avoided and just
like tax avoidance, there are plenty of clever :censored: who know how to do it.
Looking at their squad strength and depth they are clearly getting round the cap.
They also carry a massive continuing deficit. Yet have a core support of around 7,000.

The "air pianos" don't really perform magic you know.
A life long Tiger

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