Mark Wilson

[Scott1]

Yes but we've had plenty of meaningless games for many a year towards the end of the season . We've always had a whipping boy,I think people have been spoilt by this year's league but this could just be a one off. There will still be teams fighting for 1-4 and 1-6 that's not going to change. And our biggest problem has been player welfare,this completely sorts it near enough.
Look at poor Newcastle too,had to give up on a fairytale RCC due to relegation fears and still might be relegated anyway! The league for the most part is poor to watch too due to the attritional nature the relegation threat brings. Overseas coaches like Blackadder and Ackermann have even spoke at great lengths about it.

[dpoc74]

More homegrown talent/squad would be used though with ringfencing. Imagine,like our Irish counterparts,being able to rest our top players before/after a big European game instead of having to rush them back in as happens now.

Hello all,

Not meaning to be obtuse but why would we be able to rest players around European games etc. and why would player welfare be increased if we scrapped promotion/relegation?

I haven't read any compelling arguments either way, so I need to go with my gut which says it is plain wrong.

Why should the Cornish Pirates, if they are sensibly financed and get their large stadium, not be able to join the premiership on merit?

[northerntiger]

More homegrown talent/squad would be used though with ringfencing. Imagine,like our Irish counterparts,being able to rest our top players before/after a big European game instead of having to rush them back in as happens now.

Hello all,

Not meaning to be obtuse but why would we be able to rest players around European games etc. and why would player welfare be increased if we scrapped promotion/relegation?

I haven't read any compelling arguments either way, so I need to go with my gut which says it is plain wrong.

Why should the Cornish Pirates, if they are sensibly financed and get their large stadium, not be able to join the premiership on merit?

On the supposition that there would be an increase in meaningless games, where the result does not matter.

[ellis9]

More homegrown talent/squad would be used though with ringfencing. Imagine,like our Irish counterparts,being able to rest our top players before/after a big European game instead of having to rush them back in as happens now.

Hello all,

Not meaning to be obtuse but why would we be able to rest players around European games etc. and why would player welfare be increased if we scrapped promotion/relegation?

I haven't read any compelling arguments either way, so I need to go with my gut which says it is plain wrong.

Why should the Cornish Pirates, if they are sensibly financed and get their large stadium, not be able to join the premiership on merit?

Apparently, we could rest players before European matches by not playing them in the game before the European match. However, as our league is much tougher than the Celtic League, there's a chance that by us doing that, we lose the Premiership match. This could mean that we potentially lose 6 Premiership matches, on top of any others throughout the season. We therefore would be in a battle to make the top 4. Baring in mind top 2 is where we really want to be, the resting players idea won't work.

It's basically an argument for the pro ring fencing brigade. Just not a very good one.

[newport tiger]

Ring fencing won’t happen this season for sure.
As a Nottingham fan I hope it doesn’t happen next season either.
I also don’t see why Carnegie should get an automatic pass into the top flight- they picking themselves up a bit now but they’ve been cemented to the bottom of the league most of the season and looked dead certs to drop to National 1.
Why on earth would anyone want a team like that in the top flight?! Given they couldn’t win a game in the Championship most of the season how on earth would they manage in the Prem?!
Just because they rattle round in a big stadium doesn’t mean they’re any good.
Apologies for the rant but it really gets my back up. The Championship is going to become an absolute waste of time and it could spell the death knell for the game below the Premiership.
There might be a ring fenced Prem but if there’s nothing between that and a load of amateurs with one man and his dog on a Saturday afternoon then what’s the good in that?!

Apparently, ring fencing will grow the game!

It won't. It may grow the Premiership but as you say, the Championship and below, will die a death! Therefore, it won't grow the game.

I agree ring fencing can only be bad for the game, not only for the aspiring clubs with dreams of making it to the top but also the standard of rugby would drop. If in doubt watch some pro14 games where halfway through the season the play-offs are all but sorted and every game is a dead rubber.

[trendylfj]

lets throw in a ridiculous suggestion:

1. Join the pro 14 and prem together
2. Throw out the 2 SA sides and make the 2 Italian sides join the French league - means that there would be a pool of 13 prem stake holders + 10 Celtic sides. Bring 1 more side in and divide into 2 leagues of 12 by top 5 of Celtic + top 7 from prem
3. Join together the Championship with X number from the lower Celtic divisions to make 2 leagues of?????
4. promotion and demotion via a playoff system at end of season between top and bottom teams in all 4 leagues.
5. TV money top be divided 5/12 to Div 1, 4/12 to Div 2, 3/12 Div 3

As I said - a ridiculous suggestion

[Scott1]

How is ringfencing going to effect playing for places 1-4 or 1-6?! That will still go to the wire as it always does!

[ellis9]

Yet again, I have something to say in response to someone but I'm unable to.

I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I could probably find a law which allows me to respond without me getting told off or my post removed, just like this one inevitably will.

[ellis9]

How is ringfencing going to effect playing for places 1-4 or 1-6?! That will still go to the wire as it always does!

It will affect the whole league because as there will be no relegation, teams will be more willing to play weakened teams more often. Therefore, you may get London Irish for example, playing a weaker team against Sarries and Exeter (and get thrashed) but stronger teams against Tigers and Wasps where the scoreline could be closer.

[Scott1]

Teams have been doing that for years!! When we were top dogs teams were "resting" players to come to WR who were miraculously fit the week after,then teams started doing it at Allianz park now it's trickling in at Sandy Park,that's nothing new at all.

[Cardiff Tig]

Teams have been doing that for years!! When we were top dogs teams were "resting" players to come to WR who were miraculously fit the week after,then teams started doing it at Allianz park now it's trickling in at Sandy Park,that's nothing new at all.

Which suggests that player welfare isn't the argument for ring-fencing. It's just about the money men being scared that their team isn't actually that good despite signing some individual superstars and being at the bottom of the pile.

Newcastle haven't lost out on a RCC campaign because of relegation, they lost out because they have been playing terrible rugby, and it seems that the top 4 position last year was more about the poor form of teams around them than their own significant improvement.

[BFG]

Which suggests that player welfare isn't the argument for ring-fencing. It's just about the money men being scared that their team isn't actually that good despite signing some individual superstars and being at the bottom of the pile.

Newcastle haven't lost out on a RCC campaign because of relegation, they lost out because they have been playing terrible rugby, and it seems that the top 4 position last year was more about the poor form of teams around them than their own significant improvement.

100% this!

[Scott1]

Having to play their strongest team the week before the Edinburgh game due to their precarious position while Edinburgh rested 11 didn't help!

[Scott1]

I guess it all depends on your mindset,most by the sounds of it see the league as rugby's pinnacle,not me,that's international rugby followed by European rugby. It's a fact that the PRO14 no relegation rule has aided their clubs in Europe and the international arena so why shouldn't it ours? Will it dilute the league? Quite possibly in some areas but like I said playing for 1-4 or 1-6 won't change. Another pro for me is that teams will have to balance their squad better we've basically got a first XV then fall apart after that,with teams having to use more of their squad then hopefully they won't go top heavy with recruitment. It's not the best XV that wins things it's the best squad.
Whether we like it or not though it will happen,the only thing to be decided is when and if it's 13 or 14 teams.

[johnthegriff]

The provincial teams of Ireland are financed by the IRU and aided by tax incentives for international players, they are not affected by reduced attendance at meaningless league matches, the club game in England and France does need the season ticket and matchday sales to survive. The big investors in club rugby will walk if they have to contribute more money into the pot, why would Bath need to build a new stadium to house a reduced crowd?
Just because for the last few years England as a whole has not done well in Europe does not mean the system we have is wrong, the same system was in place when English teams dominated and when the French clubs were supreme, latterly the Irish have done well, next year they might not, that is sport results fluctuate for no apparent reason, it might be about one or two good players hitting great form at the same time or being injured at the same time or just a bit of luck here and there.
The problem with the English game is the lack of funding for the Championship, we need two fully professional divisions, there are many areas that do not have a team to support, only Sale and Newcastle in the North, only two in London none in the South East and South Coast, vast areas of untapped population. Make the Championship a competition that will not herald disaster if relegated to, get television and business income to help the game grow and above all keep promotion and relegation to maintain interest.