Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16783
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by Scott1 »

It's not just the quality of coaching ,I coached junior rugby from U8 to U16 containing multiple races and mostly inner city kids and for the most part the RFU didn't help a jot despite our secretaries best efforts. Some very good potential players have been lost to the game now with not many of our original lot still playing (myself and 2 other coaches had sons so moved up with them yearly until we had to sadly hand them over to the colts) . It's still very much an elitist sport and we did our bit,going around schools trying to recruit,doing after school tag at junior schools etc but beyond that it seemed a very closed shop!
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
WiggoTiger
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2896
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: WIGSTON FIELDS

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by WiggoTiger »

Many state schools don't see sport as high priority. At the school I used to work at in Nottingham reduced PE off the timetable to concentrate on getting gcse results.... Not too sensible!!
A TIGER TILL I DIE!!
Supporting since 1977 and proud of it!!
Big Dai
Super User
Super User
Posts: 6044
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: Abergavenny

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by Big Dai »

Spicer wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:48 pm
ourla wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:30 pm
Spicer wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:56 pm "I feel that's because my face didn't fit. I'm not white middle class, I'm working class. I don't want to put it down to race - I don't think it's about that - but I'll put it down to culture."
I'd agree with that. Hockey is the same, if not worse.
Turely? I know nothing about Hockey and had no idea.
Cricket similar!
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16783
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by Scott1 »

When I hear sailing mentioned on a Sunday I shed a tear at the sheer gap that needs to be bridged. The kids I coached idea of sailing would be a remote controlled speedboat brought from Maplins took down the canal or local lake!
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Mark62
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4168
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:16 pm

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by Mark62 »

Scott1 wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:25 pm It's not just the quality of coaching ,I coached junior rugby from U8 to U16 containing multiple races and mostly inner city kids and for the most part the RFU didn't help a jot despite our secretaries best efforts. Some very good potential players have been lost to the game now with not many of our original lot still playing (myself and 2 other coaches had sons so moved up with them yearly until we had to sadly hand them over to the colts) . It's still very much an elitist sport and we did our bit,going around schools trying to recruit,doing after school tag at junior schools etc but beyond that it seemed a very closed shop!
I would add to that lads at the lower end of the economic spectrum being able to get to training etc games. One of the other coaches used to spend hours of his own time, and petrol, driving picking up lads who’s parents couldn’t get them to the club. Once they moved into colts senior rugby this no longer happened and these players were lost to the game
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16783
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by Scott1 »

What were the pathways like for your lot Mark to attempt to make the next step up? Ours were very limited,no scouting,the RFU county representative we had was useless and favoured another local clubs players because he used to play for them. Our secretary would write to the RFU for help to no avail ,we were lucky to have Ben Cohen down a few times but that was only because he was a very good friend of one of our senior players. There was a fantastic family element to our club which you see across most every junior club but this was their limit really even if they could've possibly been good enough,the chance was never there!
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Mark62
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4168
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:16 pm

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by Mark62 »

Scott1 wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:05 pm What were the pathways like for your lot Mark to attempt to make the next step up? Ours were very limited,no scouting,the RFU county representative we had was useless and favoured another local clubs players because he used to play for them. Our secretary would write to the RFU for help to no avail ,we were lucky to have Ben Cohen down a few times but that was only because he was a very good friend of one of our senior players. There was a fantastic family element to our club which you see across most every junior club but this was their limit really even if they could've possibly been good enough,the chance was never there!
Because the club was playing at National level the coaching was of a high standard so a couple of lads did make it. The worrying thing is that from a side that won the u17s county cup and was the main part of the successful colts county champions the year after, there are no more than 2 or 3 players still at the club. The reasons for this are many, work, University, other clubs along with civil war at the club between 2 familys one backing the 1st team the other trying to run the club
Ian Cant
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1909
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by Ian Cant »

Taught all subjects for 38 years in a primary school but in all that time gave up Saturdays for football, rugby ( Tag from 19999), cross country, basketball, cricket, tennis and Athletics: had clubs at lunch times and after school meaning I was 2 hours( often more) behind my colleagues in the evening.
There was no pay for this and no recognition for promotion so I took on Maths for many years to enhance my salary but even gave that up to continue with the Sport so giving children opportunities to develop their skills.
Genge would probably have had the chance to meet players whilst at primary school.
Richard Cockerill was brilliant at coaching the children ( this was while he was playing and being poached for big money by Saints, which he turned down.); Pat Howard was another top bloke who regularly came out to school to coach as didTim Stimpson and Perry Freshwater.
Scott Clarke continues to do an excellent job sending coaches into schools but the main problem is that any child with any talent is poached by teams like City, Villa, West Brom etc.
When Tigers were winning, and certainly with Richard Cockerill always willing to help and come to assemblies I could direct children to Melton RFC, Syston and Kesteven but only a few committed themselves to the clubs long term.
Well done Genge but I wonder if he would have continued playing without Cockerill! Genge has said he owed a lot to Richard and was not impressed when he was dismissed. Having read Genge’s articles over the last few months I get the idea that if things don’t change in attitude of The Board and others he will not renew his contract.
I would personally build the forwards around him, Kerr, Heyes and Evans( think Evans is off to Quins!) and the backs around George Ford, TV and Holmes. I really do believe we could thrive if we do this and nurture young talent. At the moment though, any potentially good players in our schools 11-18) are likely to go to Wasps!
BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3347
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by BFG »

I put a comment on this topic yesterday but it's a pointless task and it'll never change in my opinion.
Everyone is falling over themselves to get ahead.
Culture aside, the fact that they pick talent at 16 and 18 when lads don't fully mature until in their 20's is madness and an excuse for more :censored:.
I've come across lots of good folk, private and other, makes little difference if bad folk with agendas are in the hotseats.
johnthegriff
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2013
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by johnthegriff »

I have never been involved in coaching rugby although I played the game for many years. I have children who had sporting talent and I have grandchildren who are also talented. With my kids I found that quite a lot of my life went on hold as I drove all over the country to matches and tournaments, not all parents are prepared to do that and their kids do not progress. I enjoyed most of the running around, I regarded it as being what a parent does, I am not sure the effort was properly appreciated at the time but now as my children are doing the same for theirs they see what I did.
I have a grand daughter who is talented at many sports, football is her first love, swimming at an elite club which meant training three times a week plus competition at the weekend had to be dropped at age twelve because football also needed three nights training and Saturday matches so a clash. A grandson a talented goalkeeper has received interest from Hearts and Celtic but as it would mean giving up his tennis at which he also excels and possibly harm progress in golf (early days) my son has rejected the football offers on his sons behalf as he feels at age ten it too early to dedicate your life to one sport in which the majority never succeed.
I am sure rugby is much the same, young folk tend to come into the game later as few Primary schools play any form of regular rugby so often the most talented sportspeople have been grabbed by other sports.
As so few make the grade in professional sport it is important that academic education is given priority and right that there should be a weeding out after GCSE's and also at eighteen following A levels as for some to miss or delay university to continue a sport which will never be more than a past time or a part wage rate for ten or fifteen years would be a big mistake. I agree with BFG that young men do not mature until their twenties but by that time many will be elsewhere in the country at Uni if selection has not been made.
BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3347
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by BFG »

I think all u23's should be part time johnthegriff.
We can't know their physical or indeed mental potential until all full grown, and it takes something away in not allowing young lads to grow up and gain life experience in my opinion.
It would make them all focus more on an alternative career, and save these young blokes getting such serious injuries in mixing with pro's so early.
When you look at Genge' injuries so far at just 23 years old, and players like Manu and Launchbury, then I think that forcing it at such a young age can not only be harmful to them personally but also their potential future level for both club and country.
jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8074
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by jgriffin »

Reading this posts resonates with the experience I had with my eldest and his team mates. We still talk about the way so many talented kids were dumped in favour of less talented but 'connected'. Makes you wonder how different it would be if the blazers didn't run the game
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
johnthegriff
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2013
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by johnthegriff »

I don't entirely disagree with BFG, I have often stated that I would like to see the A League finished and replaced by an under 23 League that mirrored first team fixtures, with an agreed number of over age players permitted. Unfortunately I believe that a young back employed on a part time basis by one club would be poached by another offering a full time wage even if it was under another Union. I don't think it would be legal to deny anyone over eighteen an adult wage if an employer was prepared to offer it.
Old Hob
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4111
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by Old Hob »

My grandson is at a private school. He is 9. His day starts at 08 25 and rarely finishes before16 30. Even the secondary pupils round here who go to state schools are home by 14 30/ 15 00, and after assembly, their school day does not start until 09 35.
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina
Mark62
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4168
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:16 pm

Re: Ellis Genge: An Inspiration

Post by Mark62 »

johnthegriff wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:17 am I don't entirely disagree with BFG, I have often stated that I would like to see the A League finished and replaced by an under 23 League that mirrored first team fixtures, with an agreed number of over age players permitted. Unfortunately I believe that a young back employed on a part time basis by one club would be poached by another offering a full time wage even if it was under another Union. I don't think it would be legal to deny anyone over eighteen an adult wage if an employer was prepared to offer it.
Totally agree money talks. You only have to look at the movement of players between the 3 local teams in Nat 2 north to see that the youngsters follow the bucks
Post Reply