Team News v Scarlets

[4071]

The Scarlets hooker played at No8 last night, imagine Hartley or George at No 8, no thanks!

Luke Cowan-Dickie on the other hand, sure. Some players are more suited to different positions. Not all Welsh hookers would be able to cover the back-row and not all English hookers are immobile.

Sam Underhill is England's best open side and he came through as a youngster in Wales.

Well, he actually came through Gloucester's academy and the England age-grade set up, and made his Premiership debut before going to Wales to study. So no.

[Scott1]

Underhill isn't as highly skilled as some opensides either and his game is built on his huge physicality. Can't have it both ways BFG

[jgriffin]

Louis, my evidence is from my son who lives in Bath and is very friendly with a few Bath players, who in turn are friendly with some players in the Tigers squad. According to them the senior players mentioned have the ear of Murphy and certain board members and try to and succeed in getting their way with the coaching staff in team selection and tactics.

When I refer to the pernicious influence of senior players with the coaches and BoD, as I have from about 2013 onwards, it was inside info for two seasons that declared exactly that....certain players were pulling the club strings. I was told also that what got Cockers the push was his determination that no player would dictate anything to do with training or selection.
I am concerned that GM might not have the independent streak to give some the boot.

[Louis]

Seriously, this is very concerning.

I'm all for players having a say, teams are just that: teams. Coaches and players have to have the freedom to agree on how to play. Sure sometimes the big boss has to put the foot down, the BoD should not be involved btw, but largely you get the best from intelligent, capable adults* by involving them. Of course the coaches need to set tone, direction, clarity, strategy etc, but unless that is informed by the people whose bodies are on the line, this is never going to work on it's own.

So if an influential clique of players is effectively preventing progress, or dictating strategy etc because they have the ear of a coach/the coach, this is bad. Simply from an efficiency point of view.


*Please insert easy jokes about planks here.

[Ian Cant]

Joe Ford is not a bad player but is having to play behind a pack that at the moment just isn’t firing in many aspects of the game.
I too hate losing: always did when playing various sports including rugby, coaching or, for the past 35 years supporting Tigers but at the moment Tigers’ need this season to survive whilst getting every team from Academy through to the first fifteen to develop a hard edged attitude that refuses to lose. Richard Cockerill has shown at Toulon and now Edinburg what can be achieved if every player builds into the team: together everyone achieves more.
Therefore( and I back Murphy) the Head Coach has to create the old Tigers/ present Saracens/Exeter culture. Saracens took quite a while to get there and in a way Exeter did( they built on winning The Anglo Welsh Cup).
The Six Nations period could well bring 0 points but Sarries away will be a chance to assess where we are.
In the meantime the players have a chance to beat Ulster and then Saints.
Just play those who want to play and for motivation and an example of what it means to be a Tiger just show Matt Taits cover tackle v Wasps at Welford Road! Boy don’t we miss him.

[BFG]

The Scarlets hooker played at No8 last night, imagine Hartley or George at No 8, no thanks!

Luke Cowan-Dickie on the other hand, sure. Some players are more suited to different positions. Not all Welsh hookers would be able to cover the back-row and not all English hookers are immobile.

Sam Underhill is England's best open side and he came through as a youngster in Wales.

Well, he actually came through Gloucester's academy and the England age-grade set up, and made his Premiership debut before going to Wales to study. So no.

Cowan-Dickie, no thanks!
I know Underhill was in England, the point is that he left it to continue his development elsewhere and it proved a good choice.
I'd liken it to Randall moving on from Gloucester to Bristol, to a style of play that allows players to fully develop.
Players canno't develop their full potential when stifled by tactics, the type of attritional tactics that we mostly see in England.

[Scott1]

I really think the best thing that could happen is to sort this ringfencing asap! Even Blackadder has been talking about it

[BFG]

I really think the best thing that could happen is to sort this ringfencing asap! Even Blackadder has been talking about it

I disagree!
The amount of matches does need addressing but ringfencing is not the complete answer.
Bath academy pummelled Bristol 77-17 yesterday, what use is that to anyone's development, no use is what it is!
It creates a catch 22 for clubs in development, pick big lads to compete as teenagers or get run over, in the end everyone is forced to pick bigger lads and the better lads mostly drift out of the game, then the bigger lads prove mostly not good enough for the top level when they are matched meaning the 1st team players get overplayed.
We in England are not getting a proper balance in development to prepare young players to step in and compete properly as adults in my opinion.

[AngusMcCoatup]

The Scarlets hooker played at No8 last night, imagine Hartley or George at No 8, no thanks!

Luke Cowan-Dickie on the other hand, sure. Some players are more suited to different positions. Not all Welsh hookers would be able to cover the back-row and not all English hookers are immobile.

Ah! and then there is Harry Thacker but hang on he is too small in either position so we are told!

[BFG]

The Scarlets hooker played at No8 last night, imagine Hartley or George at No 8, no thanks!

Luke Cowan-Dickie on the other hand, sure. Some players are more suited to different positions. Not all Welsh hookers would be able to cover the back-row and not all English hookers are immobile.

Ah! and then there is Harry Thacker but hang on he is too small in either position so we are told!

Under the current stupid scrummaging laws!

[TigerCam]

How about giving a bit of credit to the opposition, when you look at the number of internationals missing from their starting line-up it could be argued that they were more decimated than we were. They were hungrier and won every 50/50 situation it just goes to show how much weaker we are than most top level clubs when it comes down to strength in depth.

Scarlets were far more decimated than Tigers in terms of availability, but they picked the team about as strong as they could muster. Their backs were all from their usual 23 - the few players that were missing were replaced by their bench players. Given the front row they started I am amazed we had as much parity in the scrum as we did.

Tigers had more players available but chose to field a much, much weaker side.

I read that the Scarlets had 5 backrow players unavailable and rested J Davies and Patchell to name two others? To lose to a team with a prop at 8 is one thing. To lose to team with a prop at 8 by such a definitive margin in all areas of the game is another. Only when the Scarlets made the subs did the Tigers get any 'toe-hold in the game and at 33-0 the Scarlets could afford to take the foot of the throat in a 'dead-rubber'. GM says he was happy at being 12-0 down and only being 5% off??? - beggars belief!!! If that is what the head honcho is saying then, IMO, the Tigers battle to gain relegation has started? Ulster have everything to fight for next weekend and I am afraid that the way they took RM92 down does not bode well for the Tigers?

[RagingBull]

Isn't Ken Owens a Hooker?

[WhitecapTiger]

Isn't Ken Owens a Hooker?

Yes

GM says he was happy at being 12-0 down and only being 5% off??? - beggars belief!!! If that is what the head honcho is saying then, IMO, the Tigers battle to gain relegation has started?

I interpreted that as GM saying that on the balance of play, % possession etc to be only 12 down was a relief, not that it was acceptable per se.

But I'm reading between the lines, without an agenda to feed.

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

I read that the Scarlets had 5 backrow players unavailable and rested J Davies and Patchell to name two others?

Scarlets have injury problems in the second and back row. In other positions they're only missing 1 player and the replacements from the 23 into the 15 are fine, but the new bench players might be a step down in terms of quality.

Patch may have been out but Dan Jones has played about as many games this season due do Patch being at the 6N & training camps etc. J Davies being missing wasn't that much of an issue as Fonotia has been on fine form this season. Halfpenny is also out, this has a bigger knock on effect on the wing as McNicholl to full back is almost as good but Asquith onto the wing is a step down.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

McNicoll a player we should of signed....we got JP Pietersen instead......