WHY?

[Dangerous4]

Something I have pondered over. Just why are Saracens and Exeter so much better than the rest of the Premiership clubs. Not so invincible this season, but still streets ahead of the field.

I'm sure people will have conflicting ideas, but collectively should supply the right answer. Me, I don't really know the answer. Is it better coaching, better game plans, or sheer determination?

[Scott1]

Simple. Great setup,best coaching teams,best academies,best squads,a gameplan and culture everyone buys into.

[TigerCam]

IMO, investment in youth, patience with youth, signing players to key positions with a good work ethic to develop youth, good coaching ethos, having a club culture where players are really content for several seasons, having the nounce to understand and adapt to changes in the game

[Leicestertinytiger]

Both clubs have a culture and a style of play which is taught from the academy upwards. Therefore youth players can integrate better into the starting XV when called upon, as they already know the systems and expectation.

No other clubs really have that identity in the premiership. Maybe with our academy now starting to churn out talent we can identify a forwards oriented style and be successful again!

[northerntiger]

And also, some people on here should maybe note, they don't tend to sign big name stars

[BFG]

If you look at Sarries 2011 it's mostly brought in, technical ball playing front rows and a very strong and very physical back five, you can see a way of playing put together and continued to be developed over time based on gain line defence and attack.
The names are different now but the philosophy is the pretty much the same.
I'd bet that 2011 crop taught many of the current crop by competing with in matches and training against daily.
Leicester cocked up their style of play by going too fancy and soft!

[Leicestertinytiger]

And also, some people on here should maybe note, they don't tend to sign big name stars

Errrr not quite true is it....

Exeter: Parling, Salvi, Waldrom, Kvesic, Devoto, Holmes, Turner

Saracens: Williams, Maitland, Burger, Skelton, Lozowski.

All of them I would class as star signings, wouldn’t be cheap!

[ABClub]

The obvious reason is how settled a style of play both sides have, allowing them to rotate squad players and youngsters in seamlessly. When Sarries and Chiefs field weakened sides they still play very much like Sarries or Chiefs. I don't think the same can be said for many sides.

That rotation has allowed them to create excellent depth as young players or new signings are small cogs coming into a big machine. It puts much less pressure on new players and gives them a much better chance to shine. Great examples at Exeter are Maunder, Townsend and Joe Simmonds. In a short space of time they have all been rotated into half-back positions regularly and given lots of game time but under limited pressure by having variations of Nic White, Steenson and Slade alongside them to offer control and kicking options.

Recruitment wise I think both clubs target key positions in their game plan very well when putting together their squads.

Sarries game plan is very reliant on control at full back, less reliant on a big scrum (they look for solidity there rather than dominance) but they need a powerful line-out to play territory as they do.

Full back: They have Goode, Williams, Malins and Maitland all capable of covering full back and offering the control they need.

Front row: After Vunipola/George/Koch there is a noticeable drop off with Figallo coming from the bargain bucket post injury, Barrington an economical squad player and their reserve hookers nothing special. They don't rely on a huge scrum so don't invest massive money into the front row.

Second row: Conversely to the scrum, they need a dominant line-out. Enter Kruis, Itoje, Skelton, Isiekwe, Day and Kpoku. Outstanding depth in a position absolutely vital to their game plan.

[northerntiger]

And also, some people on here should maybe note, they don't tend to sign big name stars

Errrr not quite true is it....

Exeter: Parling, Salvi, Waldrom, Kvesic, Devoto, Holmes, Turner

Saracens: Williams, Maitland, Burger, Skelton, Lozowski.

All of them I would class as star signings, wouldn’t be cheap!

Mostly not at the peak of their careers though, most towards the end. I'm thinking of the semi hysterical calls on here to sign a Retalik or Etzabeth

[BFG]

The obvious reason is how settled a style of play both sides have, allowing them to rotate squad players and youngsters in seamlessly. When Sarries and Chiefs field weakened sides they still play very much like Sarries or Chiefs. I don't think the same can be said for many sides.

That rotation has allowed them to create excellent depth as young players or new signings are small cogs coming into a big machine. It puts much less pressure on new players and gives them a much better chance to shine. Great examples at Exeter are Maunder, Townsend and Joe Simmonds. In a short space of time they have all been rotated into half-back positions regularly and given lots of game time but under limited pressure by having variations of Nic White, Steenson and Slade alongside them to offer control and kicking options.

Recruitment wise I think both clubs target key positions in their game plan very well when putting together their squads.

Sarries game plan is very reliant on control at full back, less reliant on a big scrum (they look for solidity there rather than dominance) but they need a powerful line-out to play territory as they do.

Full back: They have Goode, Williams, Malins and Maitland all capable of covering full back and offering the control they need.

Front row: After Vunipola/George/Koch there is a noticeable drop off with Figallo coming from the bargain bucket post injury, Barrington an economical squad player and their reserve hookers nothing special. They don't rely on a huge scrum so don't invest massive money into the front row.

Second row: Conversely to the scrum, they need a dominant line-out. Enter Kruis, Itoje, Skelton, Isiekwe, Day and Kpoku. Outstanding depth in a position absolutely vital to their game plan.

Really!
Don't see much of the full back when their 9 constantly puts the ball up in the air with a chase to pin the ball down and then the defensive line to hold territory!

[FrontRowUnionMember]

I don’t believe Exeter do make big name signings. Nic White, Lachlan Turner, Dave Dennis, Greg Holmes, Dean Mumm bought in from abroad. Hardly big name signings, just decent level experienced players a tier below real international calibre, just international fringe players, but all a good fit for what they want. Add to that the absolute pick of all talent from Devon & Cornwall. Look at their pack, three current England props, all signed well before they made the breakthrough. Back row, Salvi and Waldrom were key players for Exeter, but surplus to requirements with us prior to moving, obviously the Salvi situation was a little more complex. Look at the core of their squad, homegrown or young players picked up and bought into their system. They have a style that is replicated no matter what 15 takes to the park.
Sarries are similar, albeit a bit more purchased than manufactured. No matter what 15 take the park, the system remains the same. Sarries jus purchase some more of their cogs, but even so they have moved away slightly from signing big name players. Skeleton was out of favour in Oz, Burger probably best days behind him at top level but still very capable.
Tigers need to rediscover their identity. Rediscover a typically Tigers brand of rugby, and ingrain it into the very grass roots of the club. Tigers brand still carries enough aura to pick the best of the decent young players throughout the midlands. Then make some smart signings that compliment what the club wants to achieve, not base the club around the players. The system needs to be virtually plug and play, if one player drops out, then the replacement fits straight in, we don’t have to alert the gamplan to suit the incoming player. There’ll be some barren times intially, but it’s about rebuilding the culture which will provide sustainability. This is what we did have, as Johnson, Kay, Back, Richards etc phased out, Louis Deacon, Parling, Moody and Corry came in. Two homegrown, and two players with potential who had not yet made the breakthrough to international level. White & Castro to Castro & Cole. We need to rediscover that production line of homegrown talent infused with astute additions. We don’t need to go out and spend big to add a raft of World Class players, just bring in players that make us a better more efficient team.

[ellis9]

Alongside some of the stuff that's been said, both of those clubs also don't get rid of their top quality DOR and replace him with a useless one who set us back massively in just over 1 season.

[Scott1]

Spencer doesn't punt the ball up,thats so Wiggleworth! (even he's got a new found running game these days) Goode acts as second 10 and all their best moves through from MF go through him,he still can't defend though for toffee!

[LE18]

Could Sarries bubble be about to burst? Weekends defeat shows they are not invincible, rattle Farrell and you are onto a winning game plan!

[Scott1]

Sarries have evolved away from the Wolfpack kick chase,hence their success in Europe. Chiefs need to evolve hence their failure in Europe. That's about the strength of it!