WHY?

[Hinckley Bob]

Two words: Disciplined physicality!

[ABClub]

The obvious reason is how settled a style of play both sides have, allowing them to rotate squad players and youngsters in seamlessly. When Sarries and Chiefs field weakened sides they still play very much like Sarries or Chiefs. I don't think the same can be said for many sides.

That rotation has allowed them to create excellent depth as young players or new signings are small cogs coming into a big machine. It puts much less pressure on new players and gives them a much better chance to shine. Great examples at Exeter are Maunder, Townsend and Joe Simmonds. In a short space of time they have all been rotated into half-back positions regularly and given lots of game time but under limited pressure by having variations of Nic White, Steenson and Slade alongside them to offer control and kicking options.

Recruitment wise I think both clubs target key positions in their game plan very well when putting together their squads.

Sarries game plan is very reliant on control at full back, less reliant on a big scrum (they look for solidity there rather than dominance) but they need a powerful line-out to play territory as they do.

Full back: They have Goode, Williams, Malins and Maitland all capable of covering full back and offering the control they need.

Front row: After Vunipola/George/Koch there is a noticeable drop off with Figallo coming from the bargain bucket post injury, Barrington an economical squad player and their reserve hookers nothing special. They don't rely on a huge scrum so don't invest massive money into the front row.

Second row: Conversely to the scrum, they need a dominant line-out. Enter Kruis, Itoje, Skelton, Isiekwe, Day and Kpoku. Outstanding depth in a position absolutely vital to their game plan.

Really!
Don't see much of the full back when their 9 constantly puts the ball up in the air with a chase to pin the ball down and then the defensive line to hold territory!

- 9, 10 or Lozowski kick for territory
- A good chase puts pressure on receiver
- Sarries defensive line forces the opposition to kick from their own half
- If kick is in play then full back claims possession and dictates play from there. If opposition kick to touch then Sarries usually claim a net gain in territory and an opportunity to launch their line-out.

See final point for why I believe Sarries are extremely astute to invest a large chunk of their wages in full backs and second rows.

[Dangerous4]

All the above I believe are valid reasons. Both these sides are good at lineouts, while we tend these days to struggle, even with our own ball, something that I am not used to seeing from us. That worries me, along with the full back position.

[wellstiger]

Consistency..........

in all departments,,,every game with horses for courses.

We are getting there, Recent performances are proving that, but consistency has to be for the entire season, not post Christmas.
Also good to see our development squads given the chance for first team honours. Something lacking in the recent past.

I agree Sarries and Exeter have full backs that know where the kick ball will land and position themselves accordingly and very often run it back at you.
The two teams that kick chase from 9 have suffered this season, Harlequeens and us, YBY and Care.
I think we are too predictable in that area. Shows lack of confidence in ball retention.O.K on occasion to mix it up with a defence broken up and wingers in place to capitalise.

[BFG]

The obvious reason is how settled a style of play both sides have, allowing them to rotate squad players and youngsters in seamlessly. When Sarries and Chiefs field weakened sides they still play very much like Sarries or Chiefs. I don't think the same can be said for many sides.

That rotation has allowed them to create excellent depth as young players or new signings are small cogs coming into a big machine. It puts much less pressure on new players and gives them a much better chance to shine. Great examples at Exeter are Maunder, Townsend and Joe Simmonds. In a short space of time they have all been rotated into half-back positions regularly and given lots of game time but under limited pressure by having variations of Nic White, Steenson and Slade alongside them to offer control and kicking options.

Recruitment wise I think both clubs target key positions in their game plan very well when putting together their squads.

Sarries game plan is very reliant on control at full back, less reliant on a big scrum (they look for solidity there rather than dominance) but they need a powerful line-out to play territory as they do.

Full back: They have Goode, Williams, Malins and Maitland all capable of covering full back and offering the control they need.

Front row: After Vunipola/George/Koch there is a noticeable drop off with Figallo coming from the bargain bucket post injury, Barrington an economical squad player and their reserve hookers nothing special. They don't rely on a huge scrum so don't invest massive money into the front row.

Second row: Conversely to the scrum, they need a dominant line-out. Enter Kruis, Itoje, Skelton, Isiekwe, Day and Kpoku. Outstanding depth in a position absolutely vital to their game plan.

Really!
Don't see much of the full back when their 9 constantly puts the ball up in the air with a chase to pin the ball down and then the defensive line to hold territory!

- 9, 10 or Lozowski kick for territory
- A good chase puts pressure on receiver
- Sarries defensive line forces the opposition to kick from their own half
- If kick is in play then full back claims possession and dictates play from there. If opposition kick to touch then Sarries usually claim a net gain in territory and an opportunity to launch their line-out.

See final point for why I believe Sarries are extremely astute to invest a large chunk of their wages in full backs and second rows.

I disagree!
Sarries biggest period of success has been starving teams of territory and then pressing with physicality and discipline in defence to regain possession upfield, then play in the red zone.
The old successful Sarries used to position the hooker Brits to attack broken field from deeper.
Since they have opened up more they have become more vulnerable in my opinion.

[ellis9]

Consistency..........

in all departments,,,every game with horses for courses.

We are getting there, Recent performances are proving that, but consistency has to be for the entire season, not post Christmas.
Also good to see our development squads given the chance for first team honours. Something lacking in the recent past.

I agree Sarries and Exeter have full backs that know where the kick ball will land and position themselves accordingly and very often run it back at you.
The two teams that kick chase from 9 have suffered this season, Harlequeens and us, YBY and Care.
I think we are too predictable in that area. Shows lack of confidence in ball retention.O.K on occasion to mix it up with a defence broken up and wingers in place to capitalise.

Hhmmm, most passes in the Premiership so far, Danny Care with 626. The third most passes is Ben Youngs with 609.

[ourla]

Something I have pondered over. Just why are Saracens and Exeter so much better than the rest of the Premiership clubs. Not so invincible this season, but still streets ahead of the field.

It is a great question. And indeed it's the same question everyone asks about all dynasties. The All Blacks another rugby one in recent times. Man U under Fergie another. The New England Patriots in NFL are another. But it's also a question that invites a simple answer - when in reality it's not that simple. And then there are in imposters. Those teams that manage to ride a wave for a season or two - and upside the apple cart. Most famously Leicester City but to a lesser extent someone like Quins when they won the Prem.

One thing is for sure, thinking you can just do the same thing as one of these dynasty's or even one of the imposters, and repeat their success, is the gold at the end of the rainbow. Sure some the ingredients have to be the same but the recipe/method will be a little different. The cake will still be delicious but it won't be the same cake. There are some key ingredients that are essential.

Exeter Chiefs aren't a dynasty yet IMO. They've won one Prem and have yet to show themselves in Europe. But that's not to say they won't be over the next few years.

I do think one of the major reasons for Tigers woes was the feed from the Academy seemed to stall and they took on a few journeymen that really didn't contribute enough (Brad Thorne a notable exception). That seems to have been fixed at least.

[Cardiff Tig]

Exeter are a busted flush IMO.

That may seem dramatic, but their rise to the top has a lot to do with the mediocre premiership. Their failure in Europe shows that much. They've scraped a league win in extra time. They are the equivalent of Gloucester in the early 2000's or Saints, and no-one shouts about them when they look back at the great teams of the league.

IMO, the Exeter playbook isn't the one to follow.

I fully expect lots of disagreement about this view, but that's what forums are for!

[Tiger93]

Shocked no ones thought to mention That both are bankrolled heavily. Exeter by their owner (who is also the sponsor) and Sarries being well, Sarries.

[wellstiger]

Shocked no ones thought to mention That both are bankrolled heavily. Exeter by their owner (who is also the sponsor) and Sarries being well, Sarries.

Not forgetting the Pests .

[Seal]

Agree with much of the off pitch examples of why they do so well mentioned here.

But I'll add an on pitch reason that I believe has massively helped them.

They've both learnt how to push and break the laws of the game and play the refs very well.

2 seasons ago every other team were quite rightly complaining how Sarries were offside constantly in defence, and they knew how to push this to its limits. Take the occasional penalty, stay onside for a few phases, then revert to being offside again.

Now Exeter are doing similar with their breakdown and mauls (as Pat Lam pointed out this weekend). Constantly going off their feet and flying into rucks to make sure no opposition openside even dares to steal their ball, which allows them to have their possession based gameplan. Plenty of trickery at their driving mauls too, including their players being offside.

May sound a bit of sour grapes, but I say fair play to them, in Leicester's heydays we were also masters of getting away with cheating.

This is fundamentally a result of how rugby seems to be reffed. Referees consistent favour the team who is dominant or on the front foot at that point in the game, regardless of who actually broke the laws of the game.

[ourla]

I see the old moans about finance and officiating are coming out.

It's bo-locks frankly. We are well resourced club and can stretch the rules as far as they go same as anyone else.

It's a bit sad and pathetic to hear these lame excuses and sour grapes. Saracens and Exeter have just been doing things better in recent seasons.

[Dangerous4]

I see the old moans about finance and officiating are coming out.

It's frankly. We are well resourced club and have can stretch the rules as far as they can same as anyone else.

It's a bit sad and pathetic to hear these lame excuses and sour grapes. Saracens and Exeter have just been doing things better in recent seasons.

There is a great deal of sensible reasoning in the above posts, and their is no doubt that Sarries are the current masters of cheating, with refs clearly failing to penalize them, even for the most obvious misdemeanour. So is it really sour grapes and lame excuses? Somehow I do not believe that to be the case, although it may appear to be so, to some people.

[ourla]

their is no doubt that Sarries are the current masters of cheating, with refs clearly failing to penalize them, even for the most obvious misdemeanour.

And then the same can be said of all the other teams that have smashed us over recent seasons can it? It's basically because all the other teams are cheating and the refs are bent/incompetent?

So is it really sour grapes and lame excuses?

What would you call it. A well reasoned and sensible argument.

[Dangerous4]

their is no doubt that Sarries are the current masters of cheating, with refs clearly failing to penalize them, even for the most obvious misdemeanour.

And then the same can be said of all the other teams that have smashed us over recent seasons can it? It's basically because all the other teams are cheating and the refs are bent/incompetent?

So is it really sour grapes and lame excuses?

What would you call it. A well reasoned and sensible argument.
[/quote

I am strictly talking about Sarries. Other teams don't enter into this specific argument, or do you not comprehend this fact? It would seem you do not. When talking about specifics, you should not generalise. Hopefully, though doubtfully, you may understand.