Dear Murphs

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fentiger
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by fentiger » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:15 am

Leo Cullen didn't get it too easy at Leinster but has proved himself with a good staff and board /quote]

Quite, ISTR he, too, had to put up with MOC?

mol2
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by mol2 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:34 am

I don't remember any coach coming in in these circumstances.

How can he be judged at this point in time?

Is this his squad? No.

Are these his coaches? No.

Is he responsible for the ridiculous series of coaching appointments that came before him? No.

What he needs is an experienced defence coach and a director of rugby above him to support him - because there is a lack of experience in the coaching set up.

These may not need to be long term appointments but do need to be made.

Geordan is no fool and unlikely to be the directors' patsy but the pressure of leading England's biggest club in a time of crisis needs someone to advise him and address areas he isn't able to address. Dealing with the board and making uncomfortable calls regarding senior players isn't easy for an insider and that's where an outside DOR can really support him.

Our directors must take the blame for this mess. Financially they may have kept the PLC doing fine but have they made sensible appointments in terms of coaching is an easy one to answer. How much have they meddled with the signings and the on field side of things is speculation on our part. The departure of two experienced international coaches in a very sort time after arrival says more than words. (Loffredo and Meyer) Only to be replaced by inexperienced insiders again raises questions about the directors wanting to have a DOR/Head coach they can influence or think they can.

Unlike other clubs we don't really have a clear demarcation between DOR and head coach, indeed which role is Murphy doing?
It seems to be head coach. SO who is the DOR - the board?

ellis9
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by ellis9 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:47 am

International shirts mean more to some players than club shirts?

Well that's not surprising! Playing for your country is the pinnacle of any sportsperson! To be honest, I wouldn't expect different.

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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by ellis9 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:52 am

CitizenSmiff wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:56 am
I'm interested in hearing from those who are 100% behind Murphy- what does failure looks like? What point would have to be reached before he was shown the door? I'm not being facetious I'm genuinely curious.
Even if we were to get relegated, which we won't, I wouldn't sack Murphy. You've only got to see what is written and said by current and former players about Murphy, which is all very positive, to realise he is the right man for the job.

He and the team will turn this form around.

Scuttle
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by Scuttle » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:14 am

ellis9 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:54 pm
For those of you suggesting getting rid of Murphy is the answer, I advise you read Ellis Genge's interview. Getting rid of coaches and players is one of the reasons we are struggling.

I think sacking Murphy could be the final nail in the coffin.
I agree. I do not think there is any one thing that will fix the problem, we need smaller change in a few areas. Some change in coaches, adding rather than taking away (defence); BOD changes ( I just don't understand the role or additionality of some of the people); a few recruitments albeit I think we have a team that should be able to do the job (if a little weak in depth); and changes from the players themselves - individual skills, motivation, playing as a team and attitude.....at first I thought Genge was right to go public in the way he did but on reflection I think he showed his petulance in what he said; it is professional sport and the players need to perform accordingly and take the brickbats when they are due; there will of course be a few off days but with Tigers at the moment it is a case of mostly rather than few. I would like him to stay (with the right attitude) but I think the interview shows he has decided he is off.
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rich1576
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by rich1576 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:34 am

I still fully support Geordie. I think he is the right man to lead the club as DOR, however we desperately need to strengthen the coaching squad with experience, starting immediately with a solid world class defense coach, if there is one available out there.

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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by Alandrin75 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:05 pm

Sacking Smurph is a silly thing.

We need stability, because the lack of stability is what is ruining the club. The downwards spiral started with the appointment of AM which was forced on Cockers by the BoD. From that moment onwards recruitment, academy, retention went pear shaped. We had two men who were part of a 3 man committee deciding on the players they wanted and their was no continuity. AM got the players he wanted in Betham, Mcaffery etc etc. Because they worked with the style of play AM wanted to incorporate. AM also was central to getting GF back at the club.

Then Cockers goes, AM should have been given the job for continuity but the board went for MoC.

Now bear in mind that rugby recruitment because of salary cap is a 2 year planning process, it isnt football with transfer fees etc etc. You tend to have to wait for players to come out of contract and make your plans based on this. So for Smurph to have a proper crack at the job and bring in players based around the game plan he wants us to play you are looking at 18 months minimum from now to be realistic in judging him.

Betham, Mcaffery, JP and Slater were all jettisoned to try and bring about a quick change for MoC and that was, lets be honest, a catastrophic failure

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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by BlindTiger » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:12 pm

The issue is too much player power at the club! Can you imagine rob Baxter going to the boys hmm who should I pick this week lads player a or player b?! Outrageous stuff. It shows murphys inexperience. I totally agree with other posters saying the squad lacks depth. The present squad currently looks completely out of its depth! Just look at some of the players we’ve lost and how well they’ve done recently for their new clubs. I’m thinking Slater, Goneva, Hamilton. All had a will to win and a bit of grunt that we are so clearly lacking now. And in other news will Evans is off to quins next year! So our retention is as good as our recruitment!
Let’s fast forward to the end of may hope we are not 12th and have a new coaching group in.

DeadlyDunc
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by DeadlyDunc » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:38 pm

GM is in a situation created by others, as skills coach he will have been instructed to work within a framework and strategy set by the DoR or Head Coach at the time along with players that were recruited by others.

There may be a case that a different man could tease out more from the current group but the problems run deeper than just player X and Coach Y. And just to say, I don't blame any players or coaches for the current predicament, the fault lies with previous incumbents of DoR and Head Coach and the rugby based decisions of those at Board level.

We need stability and I would stick with GM and bring in the much discussed additional coaching support he seems to want. After that we need a coherent strategy for player recruitment the stop the revolving door we have had for 5+ years so the likes of Genge, Tuilagi etc buy into the future plans and become a core of the playing squad over a long period which by the comments of Genge seems unlikely as it stands at the moment.

aslongaswebeatsaints
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by aslongaswebeatsaints » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:58 pm

Fully support GM. He should be appointed full time. As has been said, time for continuity. The current situation is not of his making but he is brave enough to front up and try and sort it out. It’s those who hide behind him that I have issues with. And the damage done by MOC - effectively writing off the preseason.

Time to give him the tools to do the job quickly - sad to say, but priority this season is now to avoid relegation by building systems that give the players confidence. Everything else is secondary. In the short term a top level DoR to mentor and a top level Defence Coach to sort out the obvious weakness is required and should be top of the list before Christmas. Both non Tigers to bring in some new ideas.

On a positive note. I optimistically believe we have the players to beat anyone if they are coached well. The new boys have consistently been a bright spot and Manu and GF are among those who have stood out. But only if we sort the lineout (better than last year ) and defence (utterly shocking). But that could be the mumbling of an over optimistic long term fan....

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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by Tigerbeat » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:27 pm

Strip the season back to the start.
Exeter (A) - total disaster and MOC ditched afterwards.
Newcastle (H) - Murphy brought in and team came came away with a Bonus Point win.
Wasps (A) - A game that Tigers were in till the late stages but the sending off of Spencer did no favours.
Worcester (H) - High scoring game, leaky defence.
Sale (H) - Scraped to a win against a Sale side and defence was an improvement
Northampton (A) - Another win and the defence managed to restrict to 15 points for Saints
Ulster (A) - European game away, may have been a loss but restricted Ulster to three tries only.
Scarlets (H) - A great performance and a Try bonus point victory.
The following games in the Premiership Rugby Cup
Saracens (A) - A fairly good display and pushed Saracens team but fell short.
Worcester (H) - Always on a hiding to nothing given the strength of the team put out by Worcester. Hoougard and Weir commanded the game for Worcester.
Sale (H) - A scrappy Friday night game and another loss by 2 points.
The Autumn internationals are about to start and the lads go off to the Country retreats
Gloucester (A) - Decimated in the backs with Youngs, Ford, Manu, May, Holmes being called up and the injuries for Veanu, Tait. Tigers had a set of backs who had not played together as a unit.
Got what expected agianst a Gloucester side that were showing some good form and a strong set of backs.
Saracens (H) - Did not expect to get anything from this game, so a losing bonus point was just that, a BONUS. However this went down to the final play.
Bristol (A) - Another difficult game damaged by the sending of Eastmond. Until that point, the game was still their to be won.
Then the European at Racing..........competed well and showed some fighting spirit.

There have been some good wins against Newcastle and Scarlets......the players have shown that they have got the ability but the confidence is low and affecting the belief. Agree that the defence needs some work but one win may be all that it takes.
Heres looking forward to the Quins game on Saturday.

Murphy currently has the reigns but must be given the support that is needed in the coaching set up.
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Scuttle
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by Scuttle » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:47 pm

A helpful and fair analysis Tigerbeat. As I said earlier I don't think we need large scale and dramatic changes which will only prolong the lack of stability; we need to add to what we have in terms of coaching but the basics are there to be shaped into a winning formula. I think we have the players who can do the job and I too will be there on Saturday, complete with daft Christmas hat, to cheer them on.
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jgriffin
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by jgriffin » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:52 pm

sapajo wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:45 pm
Its amazing no one ever mentions the role that Rory Underwood and Ben Kay haved played in this unravelling mess. They are both non executive directors responsible for rugby matters and its astonishing to me that they continue to dodge the proverbial bullet. The Teflon duo!!
My beef exactly - real trouble came after BK ascended to the BoD - the conduit IMO for a small number of 'senior players' who wanted rid of RC, wanted AM and continue to influence the club unduly.
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by jgriffin » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:54 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:05 am
BigDan50 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:57 am
We have two options,
1) we sack Murphy and let the cartel of the Fords, Youngs, Tuilagis and Cole run the coaching as they seem to be all powerful at the club and the BODs are in their pockets, why is George Ford the captain, answer because he chooses to be.
2) we get rid of the cartel, keep Murphy and let him recruit the players he thinks will turn it around, Murphy was a teammate of them and I don't think he has the support of them.
Why is Manu in with them?
Apparently RC being sacked devastated both Genge and Cole. I would suggest it is the Youngs who might be fixtures in this.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

BlindTiger
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Re: Dear Murphs

Post by BlindTiger » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:47 pm

I think there always has to be some
Loyalty shown the GM for what he did for us as a player, but let’s look at the cold, hard facts of this season.

16 competitive games
5 wins
11 losses

Scored 355 (avg per game 22.18)
Conceded 491 (avg per game 30.68)

Conceding almost 500 points in 16 games is atrocious...and a lot of one on one missed tackles!

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