Tigers v Racing

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25tiger
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by 25tiger » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:50 pm

So are you saying we should drop GF (top points scorer in the prem) for MT (worst form since he left the Brumbies)? Any idea who we stick at 12 then?

sam16111986
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:53 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:43 pm
25tiger wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:56 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:07 pm


I am definitely watching a different game to you pair!
In attack Tigers game is so predictable that even the laziest defensive line can drift at serious pace with absolutely no threat on the inside line to check the drift.
Tigers are attacking in one zone, outside G Ford, allowing the wave of cover tacklers to chase across outside breaks, they know exactly where to try and cover!
Make Ford check in and he'll hoof the ball away, utterly predictable!
As for defensively, a system is only as good as its components, it's a catch 22.
The forward/back trade off in covering space has been evident since Ford arrived back, do your job right and stay tight enough up front and Ford can be driven ten or twenty metres back and the entire defence is turned or overspread to try and stop that threat and be exposed themselves.
It's all over the place and they can't win whatever they do as they are simply being asked to do too much!
How on earth this is not being noticed is beyond me!
I agree we were definitely watching a different game if you think our attack was stuttered because of George Ford. Couldn’t be anything to do with the slow ball from the breakdown, the inability to take advantage of an overlap and the double stack we’ve been using for the last 3-4 years... :smt023
Yet Toomua brings a direct threat to the line and with it a varied attack which puts doubt amongst the opposition defenders during the last 6N, and Leicester look a different team.
Leicester need to start attacking the line from 9 and 10 and create doubt amongst defenders.
It's so obvious that it's unreal that it's still an issue, anyone who can't see it is clueless!
He played two good games at ten about 10 months ago. You aren't going to run your ten into Racing's forwards. Isolating their backs and getting in behind to force those big forwards to retreat was the tactics and it worked last weekend but less so today. Mainly because our forwards couldn't secure quick ball.

Next week against Quins. We'll need to see a different style of play. There we'll need to be more direct but look after the ball a lot better because Quins love to attack the ball in the tackle and breakdown.

ellis9
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by ellis9 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:13 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:08 pm
if Wasps financial woes are as bad as some are making out Dai Young would be my target for DoR
Of course because Dai Young has won how many trophies with Wasps?

BFG
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by BFG » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:02 pm

25tiger wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:50 pm
So are you saying we should drop GF (top points scorer in the prem) for MT (worst form since he left the Brumbies)? Any idea who we stick at 12 then?
Ford is acting as no more than a distributor and Leicester desperately need a playmaker.
There is virtually no element of surprise in attack.
Playing by numbers only works when you can dominate specific areas and Leicester canno't dominate in any area currently.
Try Worth at 12 or Owen or Manu, just try something different because what they are doing clearly isn't working!

Greenwhiteandred
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by Greenwhiteandred » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:33 am

Outside of the AWC about the same as Tigers in the last few years - none. And no to answer your question/statement on another thread - we won’t finish 4th this year and we should really be concerned about relegation as we really look that bad in a mediocre league

Chobbsy
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by Chobbsy » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:06 am

Yesterday all I can say is "Words fail me and I am very sad"
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/

Grumpy of Crumbie
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by Grumpy of Crumbie » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:33 am

I always try to keep my glass half full and that's becoming easier with the decline in the number of supporters and therefore the queue at the bar! From a rugby perspective it is becoming almost impossible.

I can't see a single positive from yesterday's game, maybe the scrum if you had to find something. We can't defend, attack, secure a line out or a breakdown. We kick poorly out of hand because it's out of desperation rather than a tactic. Leadership and commitment are in short measure. Our ability to go side to side across the pitch and concede territory rather than make it is staggering. We never had any level of control on the game whatsoever. It is nothing short of dire!

European qualification for next season is a dream, unfortunately relegation is becoming a real possibility. I'm struggling to see anyway out of the current situation. Will a mass change of personnel at board, coaching or player level really make a difference half way through a season I'm not sure.

Come on Tigers prove me wrong, let's have something to shout about in 2019.
If you don't go in hard it's not a tackle it's an insult.

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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by wellstiger » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:03 am

Taking away our errors at line out and defensive errors (at times), and totally demoralised. Being it a given that French teams are not under the same wage capping as British clubs, so can afford the pick of world talent,

Which clubs/teams would have secured a win over two legs against that outfit? = I suggest not many.
Exeter - No - struggling at present
Sarries - maybe - but they not the team they were/creaking a little
Ulster / Leinster = would possibly give a good show of it. But over two legs ?

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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by drc_007 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:14 am

BFG wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:02 pm
25tiger wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:50 pm
So are you saying we should drop GF (top points scorer in the prem) for MT (worst form since he left the Brumbies)? Any idea who we stick at 12 then?
Ford is acting as no more than a distributor and Leicester desperately need a playmaker.
There is virtually no element of surprise in attack.
Playing by numbers only works when you can dominate specific areas and Leicester canno't dominate in any area currently.
Try Worth at 12 or Owen or Manu, just try something different because what they are doing clearly isn't working!
Ford is struggling because apart from Manu none of the other players are actually making runs, you need two or three players picking different lines. At the moment they don't seem to want to make the effort and are simply stand still waiting for the ball.

BFG
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by BFG » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:42 am

drc_007 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:14 am
BFG wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:02 pm
25tiger wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:50 pm
So are you saying we should drop GF (top points scorer in the prem) for MT (worst form since he left the Brumbies)? Any idea who we stick at 12 then?
Ford is acting as no more than a distributor and Leicester desperately need a playmaker.
There is virtually no element of surprise in attack.
Playing by numbers only works when you can dominate specific areas and Leicester canno't dominate in any area currently.
Try Worth at 12 or Owen or Manu, just try something different because what they are doing clearly isn't working!
Ford is struggling because apart from Manu none of the other players are actually making runs, you need two or three players picking different lines. At the moment they don't seem to want to make the effort and are simply stand still waiting for the ball.
I agree that he relies on runners and when it works it looks good but that gameplan is alright when your team is on top and numbers are plenty, but the fact is that no team in the Premiership can afford such luxuries these days as its so competitive, apart from maybe the odd occasion when you come up against a side that has a proper stinker or is decimated by injuries as Leicester themselves were when they were spanked by Ford's Bath side a few years ago.
If you watch the Bath v Sarries Premiership final from a few seasons ago then you'll see a blueprint of Leicester's recent struggles to break down sides.
Leicester can't stay limited to that gameplan, 9 and 10 need to bring a line threat like everyone else.

drc_007
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by drc_007 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:54 am

BFG wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:42 am
drc_007 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:14 am
BFG wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:02 pm
Ford is acting as no more than a distributor and Leicester desperately need a playmaker.
There is virtually no element of surprise in attack.
Playing by numbers only works when you can dominate specific areas and Leicester canno't dominate in any area currently.
Try Worth at 12 or Owen or Manu, just try something different because what they are doing clearly isn't working!
Ford is struggling because apart from Manu none of the other players are actually making runs, you need two or three players picking different lines. At the moment they don't seem to want to make the effort and are simply stand still waiting for the ball.
I agree that he relies on runners and when it works it looks good but that gameplan is alright when your team is on top and numbers are plenty, but the fact is that no team in the Premiership can afford such luxuries these days as its so competitive, apart from maybe the odd occasion when you come up against a side that has a proper stinker or is decimated by injuries as Leicester themselves were when they were spanked by Ford's Bath side a few years ago.
If you watch the Bath v Sarries Premiership final from a few seasons ago then you'll see a blueprint of Leicester's recent struggles to break down sides.
Leicester can't stay limited to that gameplan, 9 and 10 need to bring a line threat like everyone else.
But when the 9 snipes from the breakdown, there is never any support from the forwards and they get turned over. If they kick there is usually only one player chasing the kick so the opposition can bring the ball back easily. I don't know whether it is lack of organisation or lack of effort but at the moment they don't work as a team.

voice of the crumbie
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by voice of the crumbie » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:17 am

The problem in a nutshell, drc _007 "at the moment they don't work as a team."

If you watch Sarries, for example, they usually have 2 or 3 "chasers" after any kick. Like it or not their fabled "wolfpack" mentality works as witnessed by their results. There's a lot I don't like about their general ethos as a club but you have to admire the way their system works on the pitch and the way all the players, not just the regular starters, buy into it. We had that once and need to get it back again. Ellis Genge in his article hints that we can.

However it takes a long while to fully establish and maintain consistently working systems so I am resigned to a roller coaster ride for the rest of the season. Forget all thoughts of play offs, Champions Cup next season, I just hope we achieve safety from relegation. If the team does better than that, and I sincerely hope they do, I will be relieved and rejoice. In the meantime it's time to get behind the team. Come on Tigers you can do it! :smt038 :smt038 :smt038
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

Scott1
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by Scott1 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:18 am

Yes whatever happened to us in our pomp when there was wave after wave of forwards coming around the corner?! :smt009

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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by Scott1 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:39 am

Yes,the proud RCC record is going this season,I'll be happy when we get to 30 points!!! It might be even more than that needed to stay up!

BFG
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Re: Tigers v Racing

Post by BFG » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:55 am

drc_007 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:54 am
BFG wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:42 am
drc_007 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:14 am


Ford is struggling because apart from Manu none of the other players are actually making runs, you need two or three players picking different lines. At the moment they don't seem to want to make the effort and are simply stand still waiting for the ball.
I agree that he relies on runners and when it works it looks good but that gameplan is alright when your team is on top and numbers are plenty, but the fact is that no team in the Premiership can afford such luxuries these days as its so competitive, apart from maybe the odd occasion when you come up against a side that has a proper stinker or is decimated by injuries as Leicester themselves were when they were spanked by Ford's Bath side a few years ago.
If you watch the Bath v Sarries Premiership final from a few seasons ago then you'll see a blueprint of Leicester's recent struggles to break down sides.
Leicester can't stay limited to that gameplan, 9 and 10 need to bring a line threat like everyone else.
But when the 9 snipes from the breakdown, there is never any support from the forwards and they get turned over. If they kick there is usually only one player chasing the kick so the opposition can bring the ball back easily. I don't know whether it is lack of organisation or lack of effort but at the moment they don't work as a team.
The 9 has got to have the pace enough to buy time for forwards, Leicester haven't got that and so can't do it, but it's a trick they are currently missing in my opinion.
Leicester are just too easy to read.
Many blame the forwards but we already know that Leicester don't possess big ball carrying forwards so is it any wonder that it's a struggle!
Genge can carry big and that's about it, i suspect Spencer could contribute amongst a bigger pack but it's really thin on dominant carriers beyond this.
So what are Leicester to do?
It's either change personnel at half back to offer a more varied attack like Wasps or go and buy a dominant ball carrying forward pack like Bath, or get both like Sarries!

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