Nigel Owens

[Tigerbeat]

He's past it right enough. He was the best in the world at one point, no longer (and hasn't been for a few years). Not disappointed he's retiring after the RWC.

Not read about Owens retiring......Wayne Barnes has indicated he will be retiring.

[DingDong]

I have played scores of games when we knew the ref was against us

Enlighten me as to which 'top level' games these were? You don't have to be a know all to realise that community games have always been a mix of the good, the bad and the dodgy, so what!

Cheating is prevalent in each and every rugby game (particularly the front row) that is why you have a ref, but what evidence do you have the Asian or Russian betting syndicates are dishing out the 'boot money' these days for refs to swing matches? Or are you so cynical that facts don't matter? your factual evidence is...?

[Dangerous4]

he told their 2 to "leave it" he is ignored and turn over occurs he says play on and that winds up with Manu in the bin

That incident made me really angry. It was a diabolical piece of refereeing. That he of all people let that happen, was almost unbelievable.

[Smudge]

Dingaling wrote this:-

Cheating is prevalent in each and every rugby game (particularly the front row) that is why you have a ref, but what evidence do you have the Asian or Russian betting syndicates are dishing out the 'boot money' these days for refs to swing matches? Or are you so cynical that facts don't matter? your factual evidence is...?

If one had evidence of match fixing by players or officials then it would have gone to court and been on Panorama by now.
The point is, the Gaming Commision, the RFU and the Police, do recognise the potential for it and these days, with millions of pounds involved, it is surely not beyond even your wit to recognise that , there is a clear possibility of it happening. 50k to a Swiss bank account COULD make a difference when the outcome can/could be so easily swung by the decisions of one man with a whistle. I am not accusing any official here and it would be a very difficult thing to prove in a court of law anyway . but that is the precise reason we should be constantly vigilant. To consider it would be "laughable or ludicrous" to even consider the possibility is frankly stupid and the attitude which has cost cricket so dear. We owe it to our sport to watch out for it and to come down on it like a ton of bricks, certainly not pretend it can never happen. The accusation of "sour grapes" aimed at anyone who criticises an official should be treated with the distain it deserves, along with "English arrogance".

As for my playing days, they started in the 50s and ended in the early 70s when we were in the amature era. Back then we had to put up with good old fashioned anti English bias which was widespread and obvious in the valleys. The boot money was not down to foreign gambling syndicates, it was from wealthy individuals who wanted to keep the best players at their clubs. There are plenty of books on this if you bother to look and a very good report into it by the then RFU.

[DingDong]

A corrupt practice which was in wide use around the game and not just in the first class game.

Here you claim it is widespread so maybe you should give Panorama a call? Seems to me you're still suffering from Post Traumatic Whistle from down in the valleys, thoughts are with you Smudge #MeToBoyo

[Smudge]

No, I don't claim boot money is still in use, it was the "shamature" routine that everyone knew about and got round the strict laws of the game viz payments to players. The other route was for someone associated with the club to give them a job and salary but in reality they were full time players, contrary to the laws of the Union. I strongly suspect that there are now, equally creative ways around the salary cap, jobs for family, houses, etc etc.

All in all, the vast majority of people in and associated with Rugby Union are true blue, honest, pillars of society who I am, mostly honoured to call friends. We all want a fair and level playing field for what is still a great game. BUT, there will always be those who will seek to cheat us and we ignore them at our peril. Be they international gambling rings and organised crime or a simple, old fashioned Welsh, Scottish, Irish bias against us. In the end, we must be able to trust our officials implicitly and therefor never excuse obvious bias or patterns of behaviour with complacent excuses such as "sour grapes or bad losers" . Only eternal vigilance and a will to act against such behaviour will keep us safe.
A very Merry Christmas and peaceful New Year to all my friends and Tigers in general. I would so love to attend a good old fashioned Ba Bas game on Boxing Day with a hip flask and a single malt and a box of turkey and beef sandwiches.

[jgriffin]

I lived in Nottingham for many years. 1984 Forest Anderlecht UEFA Cup semi-final. Muro. £18,000. It happens.

[DingDong]

That happened, as did many others including the 1965 merit division 4 play off between Bleddyn Dragons and those English boys, all sports have the potential but the point is when did it officially happen in a top level game of rugby as alluded by those on their conspiracy agendas in this thread?

[Racingfan]

I was thinking that English rugby supporters are " fair play" ..... I can see here that it is the case only when you win !!!!!

[Racingfan]

he told their 2 to "leave it" he is ignored and turn over occurs he says play on and that winds up with Manu in the bin

That incident made me really angry. It was a diabolical piece of refereeing. That he of all people let that happen, was almost unbelievable.

You look very fair play ..... you will be more angry when losing ,next Sunday :)

[johnthegriff]

Boot money? At the end of the amateur era we built the Alliance and Leicester stand, Bath with similar success still played on a public park, where did the money go?. Harlequins with very limited facilities were "fortunate" that players from Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire suddenly got plum jobs in their area. I know of at least one Tigers player who with no sales or knitting experience secured a job selling knitting machines and a certain very popular player moving to further a teaching career suddenly discovered that insurance /financial services was lucrative enough to keep him in Leicester.
We were not allowed to lift in the line out luckily some players developed wings, there have always been cheats and always will be and we must guard against it becoming too prevalent. Referees like most of us get somethings wrong, and in rugby occasionally two differing opinions can be equally valid and it is pure luck which team benefits from the ref's view. If things were different then what would we talk about after a match?

[Big Dai]

For all of you lambasting Owens, I'm sure you will all be happy Clancy is "in charge" this weekend

How appropriate were these words!

[WiggoTiger]

Clancy was even worse

[teds]

Clancy was even worse

He was poor, and it’s tempting to call him Clancy92, but it seems to me Tigers are also contributing to their own demise. It sounds like this is understood and we will be getting a top defence coach any day now.

Make no mistake this match was substantially better than the last time Finn ‘Rousseau’ came to Welford Road.