A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

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RagingBull
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A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by RagingBull » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:36 am

Doing my best to leave mostly senior academy players out of it.
Players IN
1. Bristow, Rizzo, Aguero, Genge, Traynor, Gigena, Ma'afu, Faeo,
2. Briggs, Ghilraldini, Bateman, Van Vurren, McGugian, Kerr, Polata-Nau, Stevens, McMillon,
3. Schuster, Cilliers, Baumann, Cortes,
4. De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Voss,
5. Thorn, Barrow, Spencer,
6. Gibson, Williams, Mapapalangi, Denton,
7. Barbieri, O'Connor, Ryan, Thompson
8. Pearce, Fonua, McCaffrey, Hamilton, Kalamafoni,
9. Mele, Kitto,
10. Lamb, Williams, Burns, Ford, Ford,
11. Camacho, Brady, Malouf, May
12. Bai, Hepetema, Roberts, Toomua, Eastmond,
13. Loamanu, De Villiers, Owen
14. Betham, JPP, Holmes,
15. Bell, Veainu, Pakalani,
(65 Players)

Players OUT
1. Harris, Stankovich, Bower, Bristow, Aguero, Ayerza, Rizzo, Traynor,
2. Stevens, Chuter, Hawkins, Briggs, Ghilraldini, Van Vurren, Thacker, McGugian,
3. Brookes, Castrogiovanni, Schuster, Pasquaili, Balmain, Mulipola, Cilliers, Baumann,
4. Andrew. Cain, Deacon, Peterson, De Chaves, Maksymiw,
5. Wells, Parling, Price, Thorn, Whetton, Slater, Barrow,
6. Deacon, Thorpe, Mafi, Gibson, Croft,
7. Woods, Matera, Barbieri, Salvi, McCaffrey, Ryan,
8. Waldrom, Noone, Pearce, Crane, Fonua, Hamilton,
9. Phipps, Young, Steele, Mele, Kitto,
10. Ford, Cornwall, Lam, Flood, Williams, Burns,
11. Lewington, Scully, Benjamin, Malouf, Brady,
12. Forsyth, Bowden, Pohe, Allen, Hepetema, Bai, Roberts, Catchpole,
13. Symons, Dunn, JDV, Loamanu,
14. Camacho, Purdy, Hamilton, Goneva, Betham, JPP,
15. Murphy, Bell, Pakalani,
(91)

38 players have been signed and left in 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The exact same amount Exeter have signed only in those 5 years!!!!!!!!! Saracens have signed 31 players in that time.

(A few errors might be on here so bare with me in that regard)

How are you meant to build a team with that much turn around, why are we signing players who the next season we find are not good enough who is the scout that is looking at them who is picking them out?
It's insane the turnaround when you look at it like that IMO.

Sorry if it's a bit of rantish wall of text, just though it might be interesting for some.

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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:44 am

RagingBull wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:36 am
Doing my best to leave mostly senior academy players out of it.
Players IN
1. Bristow, Rizzo, Aguero, Genge, Traynor, Gigena, Ma'afu, Faeo,
2. Briggs, Ghilraldini, Bateman, Van Vurren, McGugian, Kerr, Polata-Nau, Stevens, McMillon,
3. Schuster, Cilliers, Baumann, Cortes,
4. De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Voss,
5. Thorn, Barrow, Spencer,
6. Gibson, Williams, Mapapalangi, Denton,
7. Barbieri, O'Connor, Ryan, Thompson
8. Pearce, Fonua, McCaffrey, Hamilton, Kalamafoni,
9. Mele, Kitto,
10. Lamb, Williams, Burns, Ford, Ford,
11. Camacho, Brady, Malouf, May
12. Bai, Hepetema, Roberts, Toomua, Eastmond,
13. Loamanu, De Villiers, Owen
14. Betham, JPP, Holmes,
15. Bell, Veainu, Pakalani,
(65 Players)

Players OUT
1. Harris, Stankovich, Bower, Bristow, Aguero, Ayerza, Rizzo, Traynor,
2. Stevens, Chuter, Hawkins, Briggs, Ghilraldini, Van Vurren, Thacker, McGugian,
3. Brookes, Castrogiovanni, Schuster, Pasquaili, Balmain, Mulipola, Cilliers, Baumann,
4. Andrew. Cain, Deacon, Peterson, De Chaves, Maksymiw,
5. Wells, Parling, Price, Thorn, Whetton, Slater, Barrow,
6. Deacon, Thorpe, Mafi, Gibson, Croft,
7. Woods, Matera, Barbieri, Salvi, McCaffrey, Ryan,
8. Waldrom, Noone, Pearce, Crane, Fonua, Hamilton,
9. Phipps, Young, Steele, Mele, Kitto,
10. Ford, Cornwall, Lam, Flood, Williams, Burns,
11. Lewington, Scully, Benjamin, Malouf, Brady,
12. Forsyth, Bowden, Pohe, Allen, Hepetema, Bai, Roberts, Catchpole,
13. Symons, Dunn, JDV, Loamanu,
14. Camacho, Purdy, Hamilton, Goneva, Betham, JPP,
15. Murphy, Bell, Pakalani,
(91)

38 players have been signed and left in 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The exact same amount Exeter have signed only in those 5 years!!!!!!!!! Saracens have signed 31 players in that time.

(A few errors might be on here so bare with me in that regard)

How are you meant to build a team with that much turn around, why are we signing players who the next season we find are not good enough who is the scout that is looking at them who is picking them out?
It's insane the turnaround when you look at it like that IMO.

Sorry if it's a bit of rantish wall of text, just though it might be interesting for some.
Yes the squad churn has been worrying and people have been alluding to this on the forum for many years.

Was said on another forum and have to wonder, we always prided ourselves being a family club which looked after the players. We demanded loyalty but always bettered players, supported their international ambitions and expected them to stay and be part of the club.

How much did the horse trading with Slater and Burns destroy that club ethos? Now players with us are probably under no illusion that the club doesn’t have their back they must be looking out for number one. Burns and Slater were both established first team players, Slater being captain and both got binned.

Now because of this poisoning of the atmosphere at the club, is this one of the reasons we’re finding it more challenging keeping hold of players for reasonable amounts of money. Previously players would sign for us on less money knowing it would enhance their careers. Would love to know honestly what the players thought of those deals, especially the less senior ones and how it has affected their confidence in the club.

No wonder we have such a high turnover when it appears players aren’t happy. Barrow also seemingly bullied out the club from a training ground bust up. Hardwick rumoured wanting more money. Look at the talent Saracens are nurturing, Kpoku, Earl, Malins, Tompkins are all better yet don’t hear them asking for more money. Why? Incentives for them to stay such as a happy club atmosphere, international ambitions and knowing they would improve. Everything we used to offer young players.

I don’t think we have a bad starting XV if everyone is fit. But over the years we have lost that squad depth that made us so successful. We used to be able to put out our B team in the premiership and still win. The excuse that the premiership is now more competitive doesn’t wash as Saracens put out their second string team and still win. The backup players signed recently are awful, Joe Ford being the best example.
Last edited by Leicestertinytiger on Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by clarkey80 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:45 am

Agree - as many have said it all boils down to recruitment - and therefore Ged Glynn.

It doesn't help having had 3/4 Head coaches in that time (depending on how you want to class them) - but instability has been caused IMO from short term-ism from the BoD.

If the longer term strategy isn't there - or if people lose their bottle of believing in the strategy and panic after a few results then we end up with where we are now.

Part of the problem is the Club's history of success and the expectation that comes with it - but nothing ever goes up in a straight line - the harsh reality is that there needs to be a rethink. If GM is to be trusted - then back him with a decent and fit for purpose coaching team. Take a critical look at the squad and build for the next 5 years on a core set of players. Focus on the academy (as that is where Exeter and Sarries get a lot of joy) and then accept that the project won't happen overnight.

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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by TTRITH » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:59 am

This is what happens when you have constant coach changes, and when it's not only the coach telling the board who they want to sign, but also your head of rugby operations. Players you sign don't get used and then want to go. Or players that a coach wanted don't get a chance under the next coach. Or we sign a bunch of busted flushes. Theres also been an awful lot of signings to "make up numbers" whereas other clubs, Sarries, Exeter, Wasps, etc, trust the youngsters coming through. Like we used to.

I mean, I know Dusty is cheif scout... but do we actually have a proper network? Remember when we got a young Argentinian prop because Cusworth told us to sign him. Why are we not longer finding the Parlings of this world? They are still out there.

We've got a large amount of contracts expiring this season... another large amount of turnover but I hope we sign quality over quantity, but with Cohen and Glynn calling the shots, I doubt it. We'll probably see another big name back come in, and then sign budget fowards yet again. Yes, this year they signed Denton, Thomson and Spencer, but they seem to exception, other the rule.
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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by Coops » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:36 am

Exeter have only signed 38 players in 5 years because they have a stable club and stable coach.

Our constant coach sacking has contributed to our turnover of players - it's understandable.

If GM is the right man, let him run with it for a number of years, let him build his team and have who he wants.

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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:11 pm

Coops wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:36 am
Exeter have only signed 38 players in 5 years because they have a stable club and stable coach.

Our constant coach sacking has contributed to our turnover of players - it's understandable.

If GM is the right man, let him run with it for a number of years, let him build his team and have who he wants.
Yeah but GM isn’t the right man.... failure for 5 years as skills coach with no improvement in that department. Now he’s head coach with no real improvement.

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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by Tiglon » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:02 pm

High turnover of staff is a huge problem in any organisation, probably even more so than usual in a sports team. As others have said, it comes from the top - high turnover of senior people leads to high turnover of everyone else. After that, is it poor recruitment of players or poor management & coaching of players?

I doubt GM will get the job permanently, which means more turnover probably at the end of the season and another year going backwards. At some point we need a Head Coach, DoR etc who have the backing of the board even with a few bad results because they are trusted to be the right person and therefore given time.

If Tigers are going to get back to the top, it's going to take years after the churn of the last few.

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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by chewbacca » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:23 pm

If GM isnt the man for the job, and I think that should be known by now as he isnt new to the environment, then he should be told so and offered a huge incentive for avoiding relegation. Nothing wrong with some realism and goal setting.
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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by Coops » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:58 pm

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:11 pm

Yeah but GM isn’t the right man.... failure for 5 years as skills coach with no improvement in that department. Now he’s head coach with no real improvement.
Tiglon wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:02 pm
I doubt GM will get the job permanently, which means more turnover probably at the end of the season and another year going backwards. At some point we need a Head Coach, DoR etc who have the backing of the board even with a few bad results because they are trusted to be the right person and therefore given time.

If Tigers are going to get back to the top, it's going to take years after the churn of the last few.
Which ever route we choose - let's just get on with it. If he's not the man, can we get rid now to avoid the pain at the start of the season, after all, this season is a write off now.

If he's staying, let's give him the support and the right tools to do the job. A defence coach would be a very good starting point.

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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by strawclearer » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:48 pm

Coops wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:58 pm
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:11 pm

Yeah but GM isn’t the right man.... failure for 5 years as skills coach with no improvement in that department. Now he’s head coach with no real improvement.
Tiglon wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:02 pm
I doubt GM will get the job permanently, which means more turnover probably at the end of the season and another year going backwards. At some point we need a Head Coach, DoR etc who have the backing of the board even with a few bad results because they are trusted to be the right person and therefore given time.

If Tigers are going to get back to the top, it's going to take years after the churn of the last few.
Which ever route we choose - let's just get on with it. If he's not the man, can we get rid now to avoid the pain at the start of the season, after all, this season is a write off now.

If he's staying, let's give him the support and the right tools to do the job. A defence coach would be a very good starting point.
I wonder if Joe Worsley fancies coming home for Christmas - even as a consultant?
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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by Coops » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:51 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:48 pm

I wonder if Joe Worsley fancies coming home for Christmas - even as a consultant?
Bordeaux doing reasonably well in Top 14 - 6th in the table.

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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by JP14 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:04 pm

Worsley is Wasps through and through at heart, might take a lot of money to persuade him to come here.
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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by RagingBull » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:15 pm

JP14 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:04 pm
Worsley is Wasps through and through at heart, might take a lot of money to persuade him to come here.
The Wasps thing won't be an issue.

But he is head coach of a Top 14 team with a lot of money and doing alright why would he want to get involved in this mess anyway.

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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by Smudge » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:21 am

Thanks for this post RB. It is very interesting. There are people on your lists I didn't know had gone.

You are right though, we used to look after players and in turn they gave their all for the shirt.
RC's treatment of Moody started it. Everyone knew he was a player who would give his life for Tigers and played his heart out
for the club on a weekly basis. This was well known in rugby circles and when he was discarded like a piece of rubbish, the lesson went out Give your all for Leicester and they will discard you like rubbish.

There were some idiots on here talking about "good business" etc but the damage that did to our club was incalculable and is,
as far as I am concerned one of the major reasons for the player malaise and the decline of a once great club.

Lewis was the England captain at the time. You don't treat a great servant like that. As he is the best friend of MJ, is it any wonder he doesn't want to get involved with the club again?
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Re: A summary of Tigers recruitment in the last 5 years.

Post by ABClub » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:35 am

Smudge wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:21 am
Thanks for this post RB. It is very interesting. There are people on your lists I didn't know had gone.

You are right though, we used to look after players and in turn they gave their all for the shirt.
RC's treatment of Moody started it. Everyone knew he was a player who would give his life for Tigers and played his heart out
for the club on a weekly basis. This was well known in rugby circles and when he was discarded like a piece of rubbish, the lesson went out Give your all for Leicester and they will discard you like rubbish.

There were some idiots on here talking about "good business" etc but the damage that did to our club was incalculable and is,
as far as I am concerned one of the major reasons for the player malaise and the decline of a once great club.

Lewis was the England captain at the time. You don't treat a great servant like that. As he is the best friend of MJ, is it any wonder he doesn't want to get involved with the club again?
I may have my facts wrong but didn't Bath just offer Moody a huge final contract that most Bath fans questioned highly at the time?

Again I may be mixed up but I distinctly remember that his Bath contract was bigger than what Newby re-signed for early the next season. Given Newby had just played a big part in back to back prem wins in his first two seasons and played about 50 competitive games in those seasons I'd say Tigers were going to struggle with Bruce flexing his wallet opening fingers!

Mad Dog was/is one of my hero's in rugby and seeing him in a Bath shirt definitely jarred. That said I struggle to criticise Moody, the coaches or suits involved for him leaving for a huge final pay day when he knew injuries were catching up with him.

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