Sour grapes from Burgess?

[chris111]

I hate when people tell half the story. You either tell the full story or keep your mouth shut until you are ready to tell the whole thing.

Yes, but who would buy your book if you told the whole story for free?

[ellis9]

I hate when people tell half the story. You either tell the full story or keep your mouth shut until you are ready to tell the whole thing.

Yes, but who would buy your book if you told the whole story for free?

No and I still won't buy it anyway. If I read a book, it's about someone that interests me. Burgess doesn't. I buy a book to find out about them, not what dirt they think they have on others.

[chris111]

I hate when people tell half the story. You either tell the full story or keep your mouth shut until you are ready to tell the whole thing.

Yes, but who would buy your book if you told the whole story for free?

No and I still won't buy it anyway. If I read a book, it's about someone that interests me. Burgess doesn't. I buy a book to find out about them, not what dirt they think they have on others.

I’m always slightly puzzled at the target audience for sports autobiographies - after all, who really wants to read 300 pages of mechanistically ghost-written riffing on the anodyne post-match discourse of ‘living-the-dream’ ups and ‘gutted for the lads’ downs, mixed in with a heartwarming tale of family love and pride?

Not that I’m a bitter old cynic, mind...

[mol2]

I'm pretty sure that a lot of players became disillusioned with the Lancaster regime. Frankly too many at a certain level in the Union hierarchy were obsessed with the "professionalism of League"- there may have been a gulf in the early days of the pro game as it transitioned but those days are gone. Some players can transition between the two and others have no natural position in the alternative code.

Burgess had no natural position in Union. Not fast enough to be a centre and came to Union far to late to develop the skills required of a flanker in time for the world cup. I'm sure quite a few players had their noses put out of joint by his selection - either because it cost them the chance of playing or because his selection really hindered the team structure.

[Robespierre]

There are similarities with Shields with the notion that they’ve been parachuted into the team at the expense of others who had plyed their trade in club rugby and deserved a chance at international level. What Burgess says may be true, but frankly my dears.......

[Wes]

At least Shields has played the game to a high level for a while, knows it and knows his position. I still don't think he's done enough in England to show he's there on merit but there we go.
I wonder (assuming the book comes out) if there will be anything about the sponsorship deal the RFU did that meant Burgess had to be selected if not injured. I know when I posted that at the time it wasn't taken seriously, but the lawyer who was working on behalf of the sponsor hasn't changed his tune (although is n longer working there).
All history now, but odd it's come back up if there isn't a book!

[4071]

My problem with Shields is the sneaky suspicion that if Billy V hadn't been injured then one of the stand-outs of the AIs - Mark Wilson - would never have got a shot, as Shields would have been starting ahead of him purely on the basis of his time in the SH, rather than on the basis of his performances.

I'm glad Wilson got the starts. I wonder how many other players won't, simply because of players being picked on their background.

I'm a little surprised to see Francis (with his SuperRugby background) in the squad whilst the outstanding Ryan Mills is nowhere to be seen.

[jgriffin]

My problem with Shields is the sneaky suspicion that if Billy V hadn't been injured then one of the stand-outs of the AIs - Mark Wilson - would never have got a shot, as Shields would have been starting ahead of him purely on the basis of his time in the SH, rather than on the basis of his performances.

I'm glad Wilson got the starts. I wonder how many other players won't, simply because of players being picked on their background.

I'm a little surprised to see Francis (with his SuperRugby background) in the squad whilst the outstanding Ryan Mills is nowhere to be seen.

I'd agree there, I just have never seen anything to suggest Francis was front rank international standard.

[Tiglon]

English rugby seems to obsessed with looking at what everyone else has and assuming it's better. Sam Burgess was an example of seeing SBW and thinking they could replicate it, despite SB having different attributes. Burgess could have become a top flanker, but there's a reason that League converts don't go to flanker - it takes too long to learn. Based on no statistics whatsoever, I would guess that most successful converts are wingers, with a few centres and very few in any other position. There's something to be learnt from that.

Shields, Francis etc are in the squad because we think Kiwis and Saffas are better at rugby than Brits. Shields has been decent in the Autumn internationals overall, but nothing spectacular and if he wasn't a Kiwi with a big profile then I doubt he would be in Jones' thinking for the World Cup XV. Wilson was much better, but we all know he'll be lucky to be on the bench unless there are lots of injuries.

[voice of the crumbie]

English rugby seems to obsessed with looking at what everyone else has and assuming it's better. Sam Burgess was an example of seeing SBW and thinking they could replicate it, despite SB having different attributes. Burgess could have become a top flanker, but there's a reason that League converts don't go to flanker - it takes too long to learn. Based on no statistics whatsoever, I would guess that most successful converts are wingers, with a few centres and very few in any other position. There's something to be learnt from that.

Shields, Francis etc are in the squad because we think Kiwis and Saffas are better at rugby than Brits. Shields has been decent in the Autumn internationals overall, but nothing spectacular and if he wasn't a Kiwi with a big profile then I doubt he would be in Jones' thinking for the World Cup XV. Wilson was much better, but we all know he'll be lucky to be on the bench unless there are lots of injuries.

I think you have hit the nail on the head, Tiglon. I agree with all you say here.