Sour grapes from Burgess?

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Chobbsy
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2403
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:51 am
Location: Milton Keynes

Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by Chobbsy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:19 am

Is this sour grapes from Burgess or stark reality?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46355184

If he was so committed why didn't he play like he was?
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/

Alandrin75
Tiger Cub
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:14 am

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by Alandrin75 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:36 am

I tend to agree with him tbh.

We were winning against Wales when he came off, and my feelings throughout the World Cup was that there were egos within that squad who had an issue with Slammin' Sam being selected.

Personally I can't wait for his autobiography to come out and feel sorry for the chap. Between Bath and the RFU his move to Union was screwed up massively and Bath contributed massively to upsetting people with his selection for teams.

ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2988
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by ourla » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:56 am

Chobbsy wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:19 am
Is this sour grapes from Burgess or stark reality?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46355184

If he was so committed why didn't he play like he was?
It's been proven that Lancaster is a great coach but not a DoR - he was in the wrong job. And ultimately that is why things went tits up for England, and Burgess, nothing more, nothing less. If Burgess had come in under Eddie Jones for example it would have been handled much better.
You're either in or you're out

TTRITH
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2849
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Hoddesdon
Contact:

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by TTRITH » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:11 am

Burgess went tits up because Bath saw him as a flanker, whilst England saw him as a centre.
Richard Burnett
:axe: :smt100

johnthegriff
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by johnthegriff » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:22 am

He had been found wanting as a centre at Bath and was only learning about the Union game as a flanker when he was drafted into the World Cup squad as a centre, he had not earned the right to be there. Is it surprising that those who had dreamed of winning the World Cup for their country resented the team being weakened whilst team mates for club and country saw their dreams shattered as they were omitted from the squad to make room for the interloper. Not a good move for team spirit and morale.

voice of the crumbie
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:25 pm
Location: coalville

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by voice of the crumbie » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:58 am

johnthegriff wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:22 am
He had been found wanting as a centre at Bath and was only learning about the Union game as a flanker when he was drafted into the World Cup squad as a centre, he had not earned the right to be there. Is it surprising that those who had dreamed of winning the World Cup for their country resented the team being weakened whilst team mates for club and country saw their dreams shattered as they were omitted from the squad to make room for the interloper. Not a good move for team spirit and morale.
:smt023 Spot on John.

The cynic in me suspects he must have a book coming out soon ("I'll tell my side") as these sort of pieces tend to appear when a bit a of extra publicity doesn't do any harm. As for the egos of other players whether true or not he'd have to say something like that to generate interest.
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

POSTIGER
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2848
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:48 am
Location: In the office pretending to work

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by POSTIGER » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:05 pm

TTRITH wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:11 am
Burgess went tits up because Bath saw him as a flanker, whilst England saw him as a centre.
Bath were right and England were wrong. I've seen Sam play a lot of rugby league and given time I honestly think he'd have been a fantastic flanker, he had all of the right qualities.

Still not sure why he was fast-tracked as a centre when he didn't play in that position for his club. From what I remember he wasn't that bad but he wasn't that good either. He's right when he says he didn't cost us that game in the WC though. Bad decision-making cost us that game and Burgess was a convenient scapegoat.

England haven't learned though, there's players in the current squad who have walked into the squad without having really 'earned' their place.
I saw Marika Vunibaka play

Alandrin75
Tiger Cub
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:14 am

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by Alandrin75 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:55 pm

When Lancaster recruited Sam, he sold him a dream as an Centre offloading centre breaking the gain line like SBW.

Bath wanted the RFU to part fund the deal to bring him in, but the RFU fearing a revolt from other clubs after the other league converts getting funding to come over, refused. Bath then decided to play Sam and train Sam as a flanker as a massive two fingers up at the RFU over this issue.

I think the England dream was Sam smashing in the gain line and offloading to Manu to continue. 2 phases in and England were in broken field and able to release the pace they had in the back 3. Unfortunately Manu was injured and then charged so the plans went tits up

Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2553
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by Hot_Charlie » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:00 pm

Tend to agree with him. Whether he should have been in the squad is a separate matter.

Sadly England had the wrong man at the top (a great coach but not the man to lead England’s RWC squad) and the wrong man as captain (a man who had a habit not to make the correct captaincy decisions under pressure). This, allied to the performance on the pitch, led to the early exit.

ellis9
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4187
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:44 pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by ellis9 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:41 pm

I hate when people tell half the story. You either tell the full story or keep your mouth shut until you are ready to tell the whole thing.

Dangerous4
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 934
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:15 pm
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks.

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by Dangerous4 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:30 pm

I have to say that during the World Cup, Burgess offered very little, but then, he wasn't the only one. However, his remarks were pretty much "pot-kettle" Far better to have kept his mouth closed, methinks.

CitizenSmiff
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:53 am

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by CitizenSmiff » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:47 pm

He's welcome to his opinion obviously but at the end of the day the man's a footnote who barely played enough minutes to get into a colts team on merit. I'd be more interested in how Luther Burrell felt about the whole fiasco.

fortysix
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:22 pm

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by fortysix » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:02 pm

All forgotten.
Who gives a :censored:?
Only thing England fans remember is winning the World Cup.
Only things Tigers fans remember are the 2 European Cup wins.
Winning the Premiership was taken for granted.
Oldie from North Norfolk....

4071
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2701
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:21 am
Location: London

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by 4071 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:14 am

Alandrin75 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:55 pm
When Lancaster recruited Sam, he sold him a dream as an Centre offloading centre breaking the gain line like SBW.

Bath wanted the RFU to part fund the deal to bring him in, but the RFU fearing a revolt from other clubs after the other league converts getting funding to come over, refused. Bath then decided to play Sam and train Sam as a flanker as a massive two fingers up at the RFU over this issue.

I think the England dream was Sam smashing in the gain line and offloading to Manu to continue. 2 phases in and England were in broken field and able to release the pace they had in the back 3. Unfortunately Manu was injured and then charged so the plans went tits up
Bath did not decide to play him as a flanker as a two-finger gesture to the RFU. They clearly wanted him to develop as a centre and they gave him a number of games there. It was just clear to them and to anyone who watched him play that he was developing into a very good flanker whilst being a very average centre.

I thought his selection for the WC as a versatile flanker was - just about - justified. There's value in versatility in a WC squad, and having a flanker who can cover in the centres allows a different make-up to the bench and allows more specialists into the team.

His selection as a starting centre was baffling, frankly. He had not earned that.

chris111
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:15 pm

Re: Sour grapes from Burgess?

Post by chris111 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:55 am

POSTIGER wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:05 pm
TTRITH wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:11 am
Burgess went tits up because Bath saw him as a flanker, whilst England saw him as a centre.

Still not sure why he was fast-tracked as a centre when he didn't play in that position for his club.
English obsession with having a ‘bish-bash-bosh’ centre, perhaps? It’s a great option to have if it’s the right player (a Manu in his prime), but shoehorning a square peg into a round hole will always backfire.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: happywomble, kpj tiger, Leicestertinytiger, RagingBull and 2 guests