Bristol v Tigers

[JP14]

I wasn’t impressed with Murphy’s post match-interview, not impressed at all. Yeah okay he accepted the red card but to suggest that the Tigers should have just left the field at that point really reflects the attitude at the moment and the pride at the moment.

I wouldn't read too much into that.
Should have just left the field could be interpreted as didn't offer any resistance.

That may be but I still believe it’s poor attitude.

[voice of the crumbie]

I wasn’t impressed with Murphy’s post match-interview, not impressed at all. Yeah okay he accepted the red card but to suggest that the Tigers should have just left the field at that point really reflects the attitude at the moment and the pride at the moment.

I wouldn't read too much into that.
Should have just left the field could be interpreted as didn't offer any resistance.

That may be but I still believe it’s poor attitude.

I'd rather have the frustration and despair that underlie this remark than the usual tired old clichés trotted out for the last few seasons. What would you have had him say? "Look, Bristol are a good side" "We didn't execute well enough" We gave away too many penalties" etc, etc. I imagine that he was inwardly seething. It shows some spirit which is one of the things we badly need to get us out of the mess we're in. I suspect that Geordan is stronger than some on here seem to think.

[Cardiff Tig]

Ok anybody of this opinion explain something to me, how come when we lose our inside centre who from my limited knowledge and understanding is fundamental not only to attack but in organizing defence. So why did our experts, who are being paid as such, decide to continue without a recognised inside centre for the next 50mins, when supposedly we have a marquis player generally recognised as one of the best in the world in that position collecting splinters in his bum. Then when the decision to bring him on was made I observed him kicking his heels on the touchline for at least 5mins before he replaced Ford at flyhalf.

It's a myth that seems to prevail heavily on this forum that the 12 is key to organising the defence. What happens when the 12 tackles on first phase or is in the middle of a ruck, who organises the defence then? O'connor went to 12 in the defence a lot (I was also there, it was embarrassing, although the can't fault the Bristol fans who we had a laugh with) but we were clueless when we got the ball.

I totally agree that Toomua should have been brought in straight away for Ford to increase the physicality, that was a coaching decision.

Also worth noting that our 7 man scrum coped easily against there 8 when we were defending - all this talk of Thacker forgets that he can't do the basics well enough.

[ghdav27]

Ok anybody of this opinion explain something to me, how come when we lose our inside centre who from my limited knowledge and understanding is fundamental not only to attack but in organizing defence. So why did our experts, who are being paid as such, decide to continue without a recognised inside centre for the next 50mins, when supposedly we have a marquis player generally recognised as one of the best in the world in that position collecting splinters in his bum. Then when the decision to bring him on was made I observed him kicking his heels on the touchline for at least 5mins before he replaced Ford at flyhalf.

It's a myth that seems to prevail heavily on this forum that the 12 is key to organising the defence. What happens when the 12 tackles on first phase or is in the middle of a ruck, who organises the defence then? O'connor went to 12 in the defence a lot (I was also there, it was embarrassing, although the can't fault the Bristol fans who we had a laugh with) but we were clueless when we got the ball.

I totally agree that Toomua should have been brought in straight away for Ford to increase the physicality, that was a coaching decision.

Also worth noting that our 7 man scrum coped easily against there 8 when we were defending - all this talk of Thacker forgets that he can't do the basics well enough.

It's all spilt milk now. The guy had a great game and made some decisions by the tigers management look pretty stupid. Yes, he's not the most powerful scrummager in the world but hes as long as the props he's playing with are solid the scrum goes ok. Let's face it Tom Youngs and TPN don't offer a lot at the line out which costs us quite regularly. Thackers line out ball has been pretty exemplary this season.

The issue now is not Thacker, he's in the past. But how they can sort this mess out, there is some serious talent there but they look pretty clueless at the moment. Hanging on in there for a 10/11 finish and then making 10 new signings in the summer won't solve anything.

[BFG]

Some tough decisions need making in my opinion.
Automatic starters should be no-more, it's imperative that players give 100% and the best balance is found.
The pack will sort itself out, a few injuries have slightly weakened that area recently, Bateman, Thompson, Denton, Youngs.
Off the pack the breakdown is a cause for change, Ben Youngs is a very good player but only when he is really going at it, if he can't change his mindset for Leicester then Harrison has to start more in my opinion.
The backs need Toomua starting in my opinion, he is stronger defensively, is a natural leader and very intelligent which will aid the implementation of systems, in attack he is a game breaker.
That leaves 12 as a problem, get Smith in there, he is solid, is experienced and defensively very strong and he does possess very good pace.
Build a wall that is difficult to breach, the rest will come!

[Dangerous4]

So G.M. says "We have issues to resolve." That much is more than obvious to us all. They are not going to be resolved overnight, nor on the field, until there are SWEEPING changes from top to bottom, and a change of direction in the way we play. Just look at the vast amount of points scored against us. The worst in the Premiership.

Since the departure of players such as, T.W. and Parling etc. the quality of replacements has been generally dire, albeit with a few exceptions.

Cannot the board man up to the obvious facts that they have been responsible for most of our current problems?

They must make some serious effort to sort out the serious mess they created, and start NOW.

[BFG]

Ok anybody of this opinion explain something to me, how come when we lose our inside centre who from my limited knowledge and understanding is fundamental not only to attack but in organizing defence. So why did our experts, who are being paid as such, decide to continue without a recognised inside centre for the next 50mins, when supposedly we have a marquis player generally recognised as one of the best in the world in that position collecting splinters in his bum. Then when the decision to bring him on was made I observed him kicking his heels on the touchline for at least 5mins before he replaced Ford at flyhalf.

It's a myth that seems to prevail heavily on this forum that the 12 is key to organising the defence. What happens when the 12 tackles on first phase or is in the middle of a ruck, who organises the defence then? O'connor went to 12 in the defence a lot (I was also there, it was embarrassing, although the can't fault the Bristol fans who we had a laugh with) but we were clueless when we got the ball.

I totally agree that Toomua should have been brought in straight away for Ford to increase the physicality, that was a coaching decision.

Also worth noting that our 7 man scrum coped easily against there 8 when we were defending - all this talk of Thacker forgets that he can't do the basics well enough.

I think strategically 12 is important in not allowing opposition to split the field with strong tackles and strong breakdown presence in preventing quick front foot ball.
With the pace of outside backs we see a lot of sides rush the 13 channel to prevent width and force the attack into more contact down that 12 channel, the more teams can create a contact the more chance of stealing or forcing a mistake.
We used to rush the 13 channel when we were in trouble defensively, kind of a last chance gamble, nowadays they do it as a common tactic, Toomua often threatened that space during the last 6N.
Organisation should really come mostly from the half backs in my opinion.
I noted the scrum, I had also seen them play Sarries at the Allianz in round two and they took a proper pummelling and he was taken off immediately at the first scrum after George Smith got sent off.

[strawclearer]

Kyle Eastmond will appear before an independent disciplinary panel this week.

Eastmond has been charged for a dangerous tackle, contrary to Law 9.13. The alleged incident occurred in the match between Bristol Bears and Leicester Tigers on 1 December when the Tigers centre tackled Bristol’s’ Ian Madigan in the 25th minute of the match.

He will appear before a three-person independent discipline panel chaired by John Brennan in Coventry on Tuesday 4 December beginning at 6.30pm.

[tigerssteve]

Lots of talk about pro's and con's of Tiger's nepotism, and there are pro's and cons. Deano managed it well enough and even Cockers for a while. If the man is up to the job, fine. Sadly, we are guilty of promoting players, simply because they were good loyal servants of the club, rather than being the best man for the job. Sadly it's too late now for Tigers to recruit the best men; they would not come to Welford Road with the current set up in charge.
Lots of talk too about MJ and his "failings" as a coach. As previously mentioned, his elevation to England coach was stupidity and/or panic on behalf of the RFU. One thing I do know. I'd be terrified of being in the dressing room after performances this season if MJ was there waiting for me!
A man with his drive, leadership and professionalism has a proper Coach inside him. Not head coach yet but certainly lineout, surely rucks and mauls both attacking and defensive. Most importantly, he would NOT STAND for the attitude of some of the players this season.
Pie in the sky of course but talking of nepotism there was a guy here who turned into a quite successful coach.. Didn't he won the world cup? With MJ as captain?
Pie in the sky.

[ellis9]

Lots of talk about pro's and con's of Tiger's nepotism, and there are pro's and cons. Deano managed it well enough and even Cockers for a while. If the man is up to the job, fine. Sadly, we are guilty of promoting players, simply because they were good loyal servants of the club, rather than being the best man for the job. Sadly it's too late now for Tigers to recruit the best men; they would not come to Welford Road with the current set up in charge.
Lots of talk too about MJ and his "failings" as a coach. As previously mentioned, his elevation to England coach was stupidity and/or panic on behalf of the RFU. One thing I do know. I'd be terrified of being in the dressing room after performances this season if MJ was there waiting for me!
A man with his drive, leadership and professionalism has a proper Coach inside him. Not head coach yet but certainly lineout, surely rucks and mauls both attacking and defensive. Most importantly, he would NOT STAND for the attitude of some of the players this season.
Pie in the sky of course but talking of nepotism there was a guy here who turned into a quite successful coach.. Didn't he won the world cup? With MJ as captain?
Pie in the sky.

Why would you appoint someone who no longer has much interest in the game?

[voice of the crumbie]

And the prize for understatement of the week goes to...…..George Ford.

In todays Leicester Mercury: "our defence needs a good looking at".

A round of applause for this superb example of litotes

[drc_007]

At least he recognises the problem

[kend]

Ok anybody of this opinion explain something to me, how come when we lose our inside centre who from my limited knowledge and understanding is fundamental not only to attack but in organizing defence. So why did our experts, who are being paid as such, decide to continue without a recognised inside centre for the next 50mins, when supposedly we have a marquis player generally recognised as one of the best in the world in that position collecting splinters in his bum. Then when the decision to bring him on was made I observed him kicking his heels on the touchline for at least 5mins before he replaced Ford at flyhalf.

It's a myth that seems to prevail heavily on this forum that the 12 is key to organising the defence. What happens when the 12 tackles on first phase or is in the middle of a ruck, who organises the defence then? O'connor went to 12 in the defence a lot (I was also there, it was embarrassing, although the can't fault the Bristol fans who we had a laugh with) but we were clueless when we got the ball.

I totally agree that Toomua should have been brought in straight away for Ford to increase the physicality, that was a coaching decision.

Also worth noting that our 7 man scrum coped easily against there 8 when we were defending - all this talk of Thacker forgets that he can't do the basics well enough.

I think strategically 12 is important in not allowing opposition to split the field with strong tackles and strong breakdown presence in preventing quick front foot ball.
With the pace of outside backs we see a lot of sides rush the 13 channel to prevent width and force the attack into more contact down that 12 channel, the more teams can create a contact the more chance of stealing or forcing a mistake.
We used to rush the 13 channel when we were in trouble defensively, kind of a last chance gamble, nowadays they do it as a common tactic, Toomua often threatened that space during the last 6N.
Organisation should really come mostly from the half backs in my opinion.
I noted the scrum, I had also seen them play Sarries at the Allianz in round two and they took a proper pummelling and he was taken off immediately at the first scrum after George Smith got sent off.

12 is certainly a busy position, in both attack and defence.

Although the players are receiving deserved criticism, I don't think the coaches can absolve themselves. They must have gamed a situation where the 12 gets a red card, but there didn't seem to be any visible action. IMHO acting decisively (bring on Toomua at 12, take off a winger or fullback) sends a purposeful message to the team. You would probably still lose, 3/4 of the game at 14 is too much, but might have looked more positive in attack.

Not sure why Bristol would have bothered to attack tigers scrum; they are a team that likes to move the ball against 14 (demoralised) men. So just get the ball in Madigan's hands.

Thacker has been out for quite a while with a neck injury - was that in the Sarries game? Given his MoM performance, it's a pity he recovered in time for this game.....

[drc_007]

I would have taken off Mike Williams and brought on Toomua. The 7 man pack would have been fine in the set-piece.

[BFG]

I don't know kend, I wonder with things all being so unsettled and new in the coaching set up, players being away with internationals, plus the knocks and injuries, I doubt that they have had much time to practice to the required standard with a full side let alone with 14.
I'd highly recommend watching the Sarries v Bristol match from round two, it's an interesting watch and puts Thacker into perspective, it also shows just how important George Smith is to Bristol in the loose given their style of play and it also highlights the impact that a red card can have and adds some perspective.
Also keep an eye on the tactics of the Bristol tacklers getting up and discretely obstructing on the wrong side of the ruck.
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/video/ ... y-round-2/