No! I DO want the board to invest in the squad and coaches but they’re not. So as a poor 2nd, I wonder if they might give the fans some form of gesture to apologise for the constant dross that we are subjected to. But highly doubt it.
In what way are they not investing in the squad?
For example, for the first time in decades not one England forward is currently from our great club. Our recruitment for the past couple of years is embarrassing.
Ellis Genge will be in the next one now he's back from injury and I'm also almost certain Dan Cole will be in the World Cup Squad.
That will be 6 players in the England squad if the current 4 are picked too.
Cole
Genge
Youngs
Ford
Tuilagi
May
How many other clubs have that many picked for England?
For example, for the first time in decades not one England forward is currently from our great club. Our recruitment for the past couple of years is embarrassing.
Ellis Genge will be in the next one now he's back from injury and I'm also almost certain Dan Cole will be in the World Cup Squad.
That will be 6 players in the England squad if the current 4 are picked too.
Cole
Genge
Youngs
Ford
Tuilagi
May
How many other clubs have that many picked for England?
I said forwards. Cole will be lucky to be picked for 6 nations and if not then he’s not going to World Cup. Genge maybe. So 1, maybe 2, in an England squad. That’s embarrassing for a club like us
For example, for the first time in decades not one England forward is currently from our great club. Our recruitment for the past couple of years is embarrassing.
Ellis Genge will be in the next one now he's back from injury and I'm also almost certain Dan Cole will be in the World Cup Squad.
That will be 6 players in the England squad if the current 4 are picked too.
Cole
Genge
Youngs
Ford
Tuilagi
May
How many other clubs have that many picked for England?
I said forwards. Cole will be lucky to be picked for 6 nations and if not then he’s not going to World Cup. Genge maybe. So 1, maybe 2, in an England squad. That’s embarrassing for a club like us
Ellis9 - the board may well have invested in the squad, but the have invested diddly squat in the coaching set up. Ex-player ( great as he was) does not qualify him as a Head Coach. No defence coach for who knows how long, I have lost count now, but Brett Deacon is not of the required standard.
I am not the sort that throws his hands in the air at the first sign of failure, but this decline has been going for years now, and I see no sign of anybody stepping up to stop the rot. There comes a point where you have to decide when you are going to pull the plug. You may have endless cash, and a "I'll support them whatever" attitude, but frankly some of us have not. Each to his own I guess!
Yorkietiger wrote: ↑Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:11 pm
Ellis9 - the board may well have invested in the squad, but the have invested diddly squat in the coaching set up. Ex-player ( great as he was) does not qualify him as a Head Coach. No defence coach for who knows how long, I have lost count now, but Brett Deacon is not of the required standard.
I am not the sort that throws his hands in the air at the first sign of failure, but this decline has been going for years now, and I see no sign of anybody stepping up to stop the rot. There comes a point where you have to decide when you are going to pull the plug. You may have endless cash, and a "I'll support them whatever" attitude, but frankly some of us have not. Each to his own I guess!
I don't have endless cash. I organise my finances accordingly so that I can afford to watch Tigers.
I also feel that if we were winning trophies, you'd find the money to watch us.
Also, why would supporters support their team some of the time and not all of the time?
Ellis Genge will be in the next one now he's back from injury and I'm also almost certain Dan Cole will be in the World Cup Squad.
That will be 6 players in the England squad if the current 4 are picked too.
Cole
Genge
Youngs
Ford
Tuilagi
May
How many other clubs have that many picked for England?
I said forwards. Cole will be lucky to be picked for 6 nations and if not then he’s not going to World Cup. Genge maybe. So 1, maybe 2, in an England squad. That’s embarrassing for a club like us
No it isn't.
Ok then. If you truly think that, there is nothing else to be said.
I said forwards. Cole will be lucky to be picked for 6 nations and if not then he’s not going to World Cup. Genge maybe. So 1, maybe 2, in an England squad. That’s embarrassing for a club like us
No it isn't.
Ok then. If you truly think that, there is nothing else to be said.
Baz wrote: ↑Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:58 pm
by TTRITH » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:52 pm
Stuart Lancaster (Head), John Wells (Forwards), Mike Catt (Backs, Attacking), Joe Worsley (Defense) are all out of contract end of Season....
You make a lot of sense. Too much, I suspect, for the board!
We couldn't afford that lot, ours must be on about 1/4 their salaries.
Actually, thinking on it, what you need is a coach with track record of joining a capable but under performing team in the middle of a season of turmoil and taking them to the final of their competition. Must be a very short list. Wasn't there a bloke that managed that at Toulon. Can't recall the name.....
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Cockerill went stale in his latter years at Tigers due to his lack of understanding how the game was changing. Getting sacked did him the world of good as he re-addressed his whole approach as proven recently. Harping on about Cockers being a solution to Tigers is as ridiculous as those that lament the loss of TTE, Salvi, Burns, Thacker et all!
So as we go into Europe and Christmas we have one of our main centres on Red Card suspension.
How long do you believe Kyle Eastmond will be banned for?
Now Kyle was previously banned in February 2018 Quins v Wasps where he committed two dangerous tackles in sequence, one that sidelined full back Marcus Smith and he received 6+6 =12weeks and then -50% good behaviour = 6 week ban. However the Disciplinary team do seem to take more respect of Barnsey so I expect a six to eight week ban. Ugh!!! dependent on the record.
His last incident report - https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Documen ... nglish.pdf
To the world you may be just one person.
But to that one person you may be the world!
In a dream world, I would have Rob Baxter as our DOR/head coach. By far the best in England and a top man.
There is no way he will leave Exeter after all he has achieved there unless they are total tools and mistreat him. Most of all he is the outstanding candidate to succeed Eddie Jones.
But like Deano, he came from within his club so it is not entirely unheard of for an ex-player to be successful.
Sadly, Tigers have not been so fortunate. You can't be an officer and socialise with the other ranks, (friends) as we have been doing. It seriously affects your ability to make tough decisions involving those "friends" (MJ discovered this with England)
Getting the right coach is fundamental, so the "search the world" policy supposedly employed should have been continued. But clearly they took the easy and cheapest option this was stupid and shows they did not appreciate how important it was to get it right. . Cohen, Glyn?
The off season is upon the SH so there should be a long list of proven top coaches to approach. So I repeat, why can't Tigers recruit the services of a world class coach? In the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger "Do it now"!!!
I was at the game got the train there and back.Got to be honest it was difficult to walk out of there not showing any outward feeling of embarrassment the Bristol fans could sense it too.
Speaking before the game some of them were expecting to get whacked with our internationals back and of course genge.
It’s not just our own supporters who can’t understand what’s gone wrong we were unfortunate to pass through Gloucester on the way home and the train was boarded by a load of warrior fans who had a field day with us!!!
Smudge wrote: ↑Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:11 am
In a dream world, I would have Rob Baxter as our DOR/head coach. By far the best in England and a top man.
There is no way he will leave Exeter after all he has achieved there unless they are total tools and mistreat him. Most of all he is the outstanding candidate to succeed Eddie Jones.
But like Deano, he came from within his club so it is not entirely unheard of for an ex-player to be successful.
Sadly, Tigers have not been so fortunate. You can't be an officer and socialise with the other ranks, (friends) as we have been doing.
Getting the right coach is fundamental, so the "search the world" policy formerly employed should have been continued. But no, we were stupid. Cohen, Glyn?
It is now nearly the off season in the SH so there should be a long list of proven top coaches to approach. So I repeat, why can't Tigers recruit the services of a world class coach? To quote "Arnie" "Do it now"!!!
Perhaps the principal reason is the BoD have shown no sign that they are able to implement a decision making process that results in the right appointment. Four head coaches in two years? Of course you could say they will hit lucky eventually. Didn't Cohen say the board were entirely happy with the decision making processes?
If I were the Chairman, before binning the current team and leaping into the dark again, I would appoint a well qualified team of independents to do a rapid review of the position. Someone with rugby operations/level 4 coach experience in top league rugby and no connection with Tigers. A ground up review with nothing off limits. Then you might have some data (and possibly some uncomfortable truth to confront) to make the right decisions. Or bring in someone (who is well rewarded and fiercely independent) in a consultant role to assist Murphy and do the same job over a longer period.
Otherwise you risk doing a Natal Sharks and appointing a 'big rugby beast' like Jake White (I imagine he's already been on the phone....) which also fails. Expensively.
We have a good squad that should be doing better than they are. IMHO the side are low on confidence and under immense performance pressure. Which puts pressure on the decision making. Hence the Eastmond red card causes the side to go to pieces rather than implement whatever 14 man plan they have (not taking anything away from Bristol, they pushed home their advantage with some aplomb). I don't see how anyone can say Murphy can't coach at this point; he's taken over a club in crisis management. He's not had the luxury of a preseason with the players building his vision of the side, or of recruiting players to implement it. More instability at this point will just make it worse. Build confidence and protect the players from pressure and it will turn around. At least sufficiently to build on for next season.
Whilst long term Jake White would do some damage I bet he could turn the club around in the short term, certainly our pack.
Maybe we could do with some SA beef in the pack.
Club could go either way.
Try and short term fix, try and get a winning culture again by signing more quaility players and get that trickling down to the academy like it used to do. (ala Sarries) This would be the Venter/Jake White/Ackermann type DOR.
or
Try and focus long term sacrifice a couple seasons build a core group and development around and slowly build a team that could challenge in for titles in 5 seasons time (ala Exeter) This would be the Richards/Baxter type DOR.
or
Neither (ala Tigers now).
DingDong wrote: ↑Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:23 am
Cockerill went stale in his latter years at Tigers due to his lack of understanding how the game was changing. Getting sacked did him the world of good as he re-addressed his whole approach as proven recently. Harping on about Cockers being a solution to Tigers is as ridiculous as those that lament the loss of TTE, Salvi, Burns, Thacker et all!
My comment was a bit 'tongue in cheek'. Although, talking to my mate in Edinburgh, it doesn't sound like Cockers has changed his approach much. Build a team ethos; remove the players who don't buy in; do the basics right; enable the players to play their game but intervene when necessary. Sounds like coaching to me.
Truthfully, the list of coaches who have come in to a side mid season and turned performances around must be small. Cockers at Toulon: Jones maybe?
