Bristol v Tigers

[trendylfj]

I have only watched the extended highlights and from my point of view the biggest cause of our decline is "the Tigers family" tradition. By that I mean the continual employment of ex tigers players in key positions. A great players does not necessarily make a great coach - MJ is a prime eg. Best player/leader of his generation but a poor coach. Loyalty is important in any game/job but you have to be the best available in your role at this level. If we look at GM dispassionately it does not make great reading - great player, great person, great servant but a great coach - not in a million years does his record stack up. Attack coach - our attack has looked poor and has not improved for 3 or 4 years. Skills coach - have the players who have been under his coaching for the last 4 years developed any higher level of skill, dropped less passes, caught more kicks cleanly - sorry, again for me the answer is no.

The areas which have improved for me are the lineout - it was diabolical and now it functions ok so well done there but there is also some way to go in defending the rolling maul. The scrum is a solid unit and rarely lets us down so again well done there. The less I say about our defensive structure the better - I can't see any improvement at all and from my point of view we are going backwards and BD is yet another eg of "the Tigers family" tradition letting us down.

As soon as we are out of contention in Europe coaching changes need to happen - I would bring in MIlton Haig, Venter or Wayne Smith as Head Coach and any other top coach they want. If that is Mike Ford, Dave Ellis, Jonno Gibbes or whoever, that's where our money needs to be spent. I know some are committed to other clubs and the WC but it needs to be sorted before we are watching Tigers in front of a half full stadium.

[Cardiff Tig]

To those saying a red card makes defeat inevitable, try telling that to Glasgow Warriors, they were down to 14 for more than three quarters against Scarlets last night and dominated the bulk of the game, enduring a late Welsh resurgence to end up 29 20 on top.

Add in the other factors though, new coaching set up, style of play, strengths of players, players just retuned from internationals, underperforming youngsters, injuries.

But take in to consideration that there was still 8 on 8 in the pack, and with a 9 and 10 that have 80 and 51 England caps respectively. Why weren't they playing it tight for the remainder of the game and the half-backs playing for territory. They shouldn't need a coach to tell them that. To go down to 14 men and try and beat Bristol at their own game was just foolish by the whole team.

They probably would have lost still, but not been totally embarrassed. The players need to take a long, hard look at themselves.

[BFG]

To those saying a red card makes defeat inevitable, try telling that to Glasgow Warriors, they were down to 14 for more than three quarters against Scarlets last night and dominated the bulk of the game, enduring a late Welsh resurgence to end up 29 20 on top.

Add in the other factors though, new coaching set up, style of play, strengths of players, players just retuned from internationals, underperforming youngsters, injuries.

But take in to consideration that there was still 8 on 8 in the pack, and with a 9 and 10 that have 80 and 51 England caps respectively. Why weren't they playing it tight for the remainder of the game and the half-backs playing for territory. They shouldn't need a coach to tell them that. To go down to 14 men and try and beat Bristol at their own game was just foolish by the whole team.

They probably would have lost still, but not been totally embarrassed. The players need to take a long, hard look at themselves.

You make great points for me.
From a coaching perspective, when a red card happens all the preparation goes out of the window and it's down to the reaction of the players.
You can tweak things tactically from the bench but everything went against Leicester yesterday.
Missing Thompson, Tom Youngs, Bateman, Harrison and even what Veainu could've brought in those circumstances was a real choker.

[Smudge]

trendyflj wtote:

MJ is a prime eg. Best player/leader of his generation but a poor coach.

I agree with the jist of your post but not that bit. MJ was/is not a poor coach. He was, as you say, a great player but he went from being a player directly to be the England Head Coach. This was madness and he was carried there on a tide of respect and affection from everyone. It was always my contention that he should have gone to club coaching as an assistant forwards coach and gained his badges. Had he done that, I am sure he would have been a top coach but it was a house, built without foundations. Likewise, he was in charge of players who were mostly his friends. His captain, Lewis Moody is his best friend and they and their wives and families holiday together. This was like a general eating in the mess hall with all the private soldiers and then having to discipline them. MJ is a great man but it was the stupidity of the RFU for promoting him too soon without experience. I know it was a chastening experience for him but in retrospect, his record was not as bad as some proclame.

[sam16111986]

Still a long way to go and top four is a longshot....top six has to be the target. Loising Denton, who was playing superbly, was a big blow and the autumn internationals did not help with a back line.
Fans have called for the use of the younger players and this has been done: Kerr, Heyes, Hardwick, White, Worth, Olowefela but these have not provided the integration for the team to get the results......I have personally been disappointed with White and Olowefela.
The loss of Veanu to injury, Spencer to suspension, Toomua and Polatanau to Australia and the red card yesterday have not made it easy for the team.

Can't say I agree. The younger players have been one of the few bright points of this season. 19 and 20 year old players filling out squad player positions is a nice place to be in. Should remove the need for us to bolster the squad with cheap journeymen and free up cap for improving the leaving senior players. It would have been nicer to see a young player force their way into the first choice reckoning but you don't see many 19/20 year olds in the first choice 15s of AP sides for a reason, it takes time to learn the game.

The loss of senior players has hurt us but we are currently carrying too many players who are on first choice contracts but who aren't making a positive impact.

For Christmas I hope we get an experienced defence coach.

[tigerssteve]

Bottom of the table 41 Tigers "All stars" 10. If there is anyone out there who is not embarrassed by this, please tell me what you're on, because I'd like some! I've been making the same point for some time, and keep getting lectures from the "let's just get behind them" brigade. Frankly, I don't know what that means. I'm in my 70's. and have been supporting Tigers for 63 years; most of my pension goes on supporting them, I don't know what else I can do. Something is DEEPLY wrong at my club, at the very top, I suspect. The name "Tigers" now evokes laughter, rather than respect. I still believe that GM does not have the right personality to make winners of a squad of talented players. I wish I had a solution.

Late 60's. Supporter for most of that. Totally agree. The very thought of the Tigers as next fixture brought a shiver to opposition spines. Now they can't wait. We need some pride back. Quickly!

[HantsTiger]

I'm struggling to believe that in this day in age that we don't spend time training with 14 v 15 both in attack and defence. So many things are yellow or red that we must do this. Even when coaching at a local club level we had plans for cover etc when down to 14.

I can't see how a professional team says, we lose a player and it ruins the game.

[tigerssteve]

trendyflj wtote:

MJ is a prime eg. Best player/leader of his generation but a poor coach.

I agree with the jist of your post but not that bit. MJ was/is not a poor coach. He was, as you say, a great player but he went from being a player directly to be the England Head Coach. This was madness and he was carried there on a tide of respect and affection from everyone. It was always my contention that he should have gone to club coaching as an assistant forwards coach and gained his badges. Had he done that, I am sure he would have been a top coach but it was a house, built without foundations. Likewise, he was in charge of players who were mostly his friends. His captain, Lewis Moody is his best friend and they and their wives and families holiday together. This was like a general eating in the mess hall with all the private soldiers and then having to discipline them. MJ is a great man but it was the stupidity of the RFU for promoting him too soon without experience. I know it was a chastening experience for him but in retrospect, his record was not as bad as some proclame.

100%. Love him as I did it was obvious that player to head coach is a step too far in junior rugby, let alone international. A proper process would have produced a top coach. Still could but the pill is probably too bitter.

[Evilad]

10-41!!!!!!!!
I’m sure they’ll be some positive spin on this from someone. But I am increasingly thinking a relegation fight (or even relegation) might shake things up a bit. Things seem to need shaking up...very sad.

Sadly I've said this to many friends and colleagues, I still believe we aren't good enough for the prem. We struggled against a terrible L Irish in pre season. Relegation would shake everything up from shipping dead wood to hitting the club hard in the pocket and then they may wake up and smell the coffee! Sadly week on week the stands at WR are becoming empty.
We have become the laughing stock of English rugby. As i've said before we are 10 years behind the top clubs.

Why are the stands becoming empty? Probably because people only want to support the club in the good times. The team need fans more than ever but some people only want to support the club in positive times. The team need our support more than ever. Get your backsides to the stadium and show the players we support them. Then again, if you don't want to support them, then it's probably best you stay away.

I would love to come to a game, bringing friends who have never been to a professional rugby match before, but I will not travel from Norfolk when ticket prices are based on the opposition, and have had a price hike. Nor can I justify the costs of new shirts ( home and away) every season. I will not support a board that sees its fans as nothing more that a licence to print money. I will always support the team ( players and coaching staff), but at the moment the board don't seem to be doing so.

[JP14]

I wasn’t impressed with Murphy’s post match-interview, not impressed at all. Yeah okay he accepted the red card but to suggest that the Tigers should have just left the field at that point really reflects the attitude at the moment and the pride at the moment.

[BFG]

I wasn’t impressed with Murphy’s post match-interview, not impressed at all. Yeah okay he accepted the red card but to suggest that the Tigers should have just left the field at that point really reflects the attitude at the moment and the pride at the moment.

I wouldn't read too much into that.
Should have just left the field could be interpreted as didn't offer any resistance.

[RagingBull]

You got the source because when I read it, it sounded like BFG said like he meant we offered no resistance.

[voice of the crumbie]

I wasn’t impressed with Murphy’s post match-interview, not impressed at all. Yeah okay he accepted the red card but to suggest that the Tigers should have just left the field at that point really reflects the attitude at the moment and the pride at the moment.

I wouldn't read too much into that.
Should have just left the field could be interpreted as didn't offer any resistance.

That's how I interpreted it, BFG. I think there's also an element of frustration and despair behind the remark.

[sam16111986]

I wasn’t impressed with Murphy’s post match-interview, not impressed at all. Yeah okay he accepted the red card but to suggest that the Tigers should have just left the field at that point really reflects the attitude at the moment and the pride at the moment.

I wouldn't read too much into that.
Should have just left the field could be interpreted as didn't offer any resistance.

That's how I interpreted it, BFG. I think there's also an element of frustration and despair behind the remark.

Agree with you both, sounded like an angry Geordan to me. I suspect it was Fergie style hairdryer treatment at full time.

[Crumblies]

Ok finally I have been driven to despair and feel the need to get something off my chest.

I was at the game yesterday pulling my hair out. Despite being a Tigers supporter for over 40 years I don't profess to be a Rugby expert, because I have neither played the game at a good level nor officiated it. However I judge what I see with my eyes and ask myself serious questions like does it make sense or does defy logic and plain commonsense. So I hear people who say when we had the red card yesterday what followed was all down to the players and nothing to do with the coaches.

Ok anybody of this opinion explain something to me, how come when we lose our inside centre who from my limited knowledge and understanding is fundamental not only to attack but in organizing defence. So why did our experts, who are being paid as such, decide to continue without a recognised inside centre for the next 50mins, when supposedly we have a marquis player generally recognised as one of the best in the world in that position collecting splinters in his bum. Then when the decision to bring him on was made I observed him kicking his heels on the touchline for at least 5mins before he replaced Ford at flyhalf.