Clubs that cheat.

[jgriffin]

Back in 2013-5 when I had a very direct conduit to Prem players, the Sarries and Bath situations were well known to them, and very far into the breach. Rupert, allegedly, had an open pocket, especially in SA, and Craig was 'suspected' of similar.
While the mechanisms are presumably still in place, I would suspect only a couple of players at best, or even none, are supported in that way, but the issue of under-the-counter bonuses or trust funds may well be still in place.

[Smudge]

But what it means is that they will be able to bridge the all too long international breaks more easily than those that keep
to the rules. What makes it worse is that they are doing what they do by running up massive debts.
It may be that they are able to pay off some of those debts if, as reported, the league is partly sold off to outside financial
interests. You may be sure that if those interests are given the chance, they will let RU follow the same route as wendyball.

There is no doubt that Saffacens have brought through some useful and dynamic players from within the UK, which may be of use to the National team but it does seem certain, they have been able to do so by extending their squad, way beyond the remit
of conventional accountancy. (Allegedly)

[ellis9]

Not this old one.

Look, if the authorities aren't policing the cap then we need to break it aswell.

Wow! What a "great" sense of morality you have.

It's hardly the crime of the century is it. No women or children will be harmed. We won't be polluting the planet.

Listen, I'd much rather the rules were adhered to and properly policed. But by now clubs must surely know whether that is happening or not. And if it isn't and you can't or choose not to do something about it, then you may aswell do the same. And indeed, that is why I find the discussion so pointless.

I disagree with the 'if you can't beat them, join them' attitude. I'd prefer my club to adhere to the rules/laws, even if that means we fall behind.

If you find the discussion so pointless, then don't bother discussing it!

[ourla]

I disagree with the 'if you can't beat them, join them' attitude. I'd prefer my club to adhere to the rules/laws, even if that means we fall behind.

Well that's fine. But as I say we are party to the cheating and have accepted it. We've put up so we should shut up. And yes I'm talking about our fans here. The club have acted on our behalf by allowing others to break the rules, so we shouldn't criticise the others.

[ellis9]

I disagree with the 'if you can't beat them, join them' attitude. I'd prefer my club to adhere to the rules/laws, even if that means we fall behind.

Well that's fine. But as I say we are party to the cheating and have accepted it. We've put up so we should shut up. And yes I'm talking about our fans here. The club have acted on our behalf by allowing others to break the rules, so we shouldn't criticise the others.

Oh, you are discussing it still?

[ourla]

I disagree with the 'if you can't beat them, join them' attitude. I'd prefer my club to adhere to the rules/laws, even if that means we fall behind.

Well that's fine. But as I say we are party to the cheating and have accepted it. We've put up so we should shut up. And yes I'm talking about our fans here. The club have acted on our behalf by allowing others to break the rules, so we shouldn't criticise the others.

Oh, you are discussing it still?

Are you agreeing with me or do you have a counter argument. You seem to be saying that we should discuss it. Why do you think that? What leg do you think we have to stand on?

[Smudge]

Ourla wrote:-

But as I say we are party to the cheating and have accepted it. We've put up so we should shut up. And yes I'm talking about our fans here. The club have acted on our behalf by allowing others to break the rules, so we shouldn't criticise the others.

Please explain how we have been party to cheating. When did we accept it?

[ourla]

Ourla wrote:-

But as I say we are party to the cheating and have accepted it. We've put up so we should shut up. And yes I'm talking about our fans here. The club have acted on our behalf by allowing others to break the rules, so we shouldn't criticise the others.

Please explain how we have been party to cheating. When did we accept it?

As I understand their was an investigation after this and it was effectively hushed up with some sort of fine agreed behind closed doors. Wasps have also been fined althought it was deemed to not been "deliberate". Fines for this sort of thing are pointless. Clubs get to Prem and European play offs because of it and thus make the money back. Not to mention the longer term benefits of being successful (attracting better coaches, players, etc). Our board were party to this and then to a large increase in the cap.

[mol2]

We probably don't have the funding to exceed the salary cap anyway.

Did our downturn in performance coincide with the building of the new stand? May be a coincidence of course but I'd be pretty sure we don't have the buying power of some other clubs.

[ourla]

We probably don't have the funding to exceed the salary cap anyway.

Did our downturn in performance coincide with the building of the new stand? May be a coincidence of course but I'd be pretty sure we don't have the buying power of some other clubs.

I'm not buying this at all. Our main squad of 25 has everything we need. Our problems have largely been the coaching IMO plus perhaps a neglect of the next 15 after those 25. But even then we should be able to at least finish 3rd/4th.

[JP14]

We probably don't have the funding to exceed the salary cap anyway.

Did our downturn in performance coincide with the building of the new stand? May be a coincidence of course but I'd be pretty sure we don't have the buying power of some other clubs.

That’s just a correlation, an interesting one, but it has nothing to do with the recent downfall. Anyone who still thinks the salary cap is affected by the stadium and hotel should really start to grow up, however what if affected the coaching budget or the academy budget?

[ellis9]

Well that's fine. But as I say we are party to the cheating and have accepted it. We've put up so we should shut up. And yes I'm talking about our fans here. The club have acted on our behalf by allowing others to break the rules, so we shouldn't criticise the others.

Oh, you are discussing it still?

Are you agreeing with me or do you have a counter argument. You seem to be saying that we should discuss it. Why do you think that? What leg do you think we have to stand on?

Oh, you are still talking about it.

[mol2]

Our current problems have been developing over several seasons.
Can we bust the salary cap - doubtful. Many suspect others do but to what extent? If we could would we?

We don’t seem to have money to spend on the back room staff. The conditioning coach went a few years ago. We don’t have a defence coach.

We don’t have the sugar daddy budget of some.

[Smudge]

We don't want a "sugar daddy" at Tigers. We want sound well run finances and no debts. I'm not sure our lack of a defence coach etc is down purely to money. Yes getting rid of MOC, AM and RC cost a fair old wedge but we are the wealthiest best supported club in the Country, if not Europe. I dare say we could easily borrow the funds to buy in all sorts of expertise but that is not conducive to sound finances. I am told the board expect our coaching staff to be able to cover all aspects of the game from among themselves. Not unreasonable but if you are bringing someone in to coach, others will have to make room for them.
Personally, I never played in a pack when there were separate coaches for scrummaging and lineouts. Mauling and rucking.
Or a back row where they needed an attack coach as well as a defence coach.
I suspect that the BOD are more of my generation when it comes to things like that.
Quite a lot of opinion among my friends is that we don't so much need a defence coach but for the chap paid to do it, to get on with it.

[mol2]

I wasn't advocating a Sugar Daddy at all. I was making the point that those that do may have way more cash to spend than clubs who simply rely on sponsorship, stadium revenue and gate income.

Whether they are spending that on back room staff or back door payments to players is not clear. I't not clear how well the league polices it, let alone punishes those that exceed it. Partly because it's damn difficult to prove if done overseas. Past actions would suggest that there is little will amongst the league to enforce matters anyway. Sugar Daddies have more expensive legal teams than the league!

Does Murphy need more support staff - probably?
Does our squad represent value for money is probably the most relevant question?
Is the spread of that money wise? Our performances when key players are injured or on international duty suggests the second string are considerably below where me might like. Can we get ourselves in a position where we can play our first team in the play offs and knock out stages is not clear.