Tigers vs Saracens

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Ian Cant
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by Ian Cant »

True Tigers’ spirit shown today. Was,as usual at the game and yes, the tackling is still poor and Bristol will score tries next week.
However:
1) heads didn’t go down despite being unlucky with injuries ( in part due to Cole)
2) though we were unlucky with the two disallowed tries and their first came when, ax happened for much of the game, Sarries offside so Ford had to kick and they got the rebound.
3) Ford had his best game yet and at least he isn’t as arrogant as some other player reportedly demanding double his salary then brainlessly kicks the ball into them when there was a very good chance to counter and win the game)
4) Cole has shown he should be captain
5) We had as many missing as Sarries and, on another day, the refs decisions could go for us( seen, in other games this season, penalty tries given for the knock on and deliberate pull down of our rolling maul that, although we did shove them over would have saved time with a penalty try !)
6)listened to Murphy on the way home: told it like it was and hinted that the squad put together wasn’t good enough.
7) we did get a point which at half time seemed unlikely.
Please folks, give Murphy time and stop thinking about top four or top anything and take 1 game at a time.
Robespierre
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by Robespierre »

TigerCam wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:19 pm
Tigers will be able to field a first choice team and should have too much for Bristol.
Or is that the kiss of death?!!
Really? Best pucker up!!!
[/quote]

Won't their international players be available? Or as parvacat wrote above, maybe there's a compulsory rest period?
Whatever, puckered up I shall be!
Semper in excretia
Big Dai
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by Big Dai »

Ian Cant wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:03 pm True Tigers’ spirit shown today. Was,as usual at the game and yes, the tackling is still poor and Bristol will score tries next week.
However:
1) heads didn’t go down despite being unlucky with injuries ( in part due to Cole)
2) though we were unlucky with the two disallowed tries and their first came when, ax happened for much of the game, Sarries offside so Ford had to kick and they got the rebound.
3) Ford had his best game yet and at least he isn’t as arrogant as some other player reportedly demanding double his salary then brainlessly kicks the ball into them when there was a very good chance to counter and win the game)
4) Cole has shown he should be captain
5) We had as many missing as Sarries and, on another day, the refs decisions could go for us( seen, in other games this season, penalty tries given for the knock on and deliberate pull down of our rolling maul that, although we did shove them over would have saved time with a penalty try !)
6)listened to Murphy on the way home: told it like it was and hinted that the squad put together wasn’t good enough.
7) we did get a point which at half time seemed unlikely.
Please folks, give Murphy time and stop thinking about top four or top anything and take 1 game at a time.
Like!!
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westwinds31
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by westwinds31 »

Ok, so there’s no lack of effort or endeavour, even though heads went down after the tries...understandably. We battled back well in the second half. It’s the lack of creativity and apparent lack of any game plan, aside from runners off of Harrison, time after time. Sarries lapped it up...nice defensive work out for them. Absolutely nothing behind the scrum, Oz called it...schoolboy passing down the line with no defenders near us and aimless kicking. Ford is simply not good enough...I hate to say it, because he’s clearly got a first team contract and someone has seen something in him, but I see nothing. Decision making poor again and skills lacking...this has been happening for a few years now. All of which leads to poor coaching, inability to get the players to execute a plan, and players not being good enough.

What is Tigers style of play ? Yeah, I’m scratching my head as well. Look at Sarries and Exeter....defence made of iron, everyone buys into it, you can see when they get a turnover, everyone is shouting and back slapping. They’re a proper team. But not just the 23 man squad, they play like that at A League level and try it at Under 18s. I watched Exeter A League a coup,e of weeks ago - they had Ewers starting but apart from that it was a second string with Academy lads sprinkled in. They played exactly like the first team.....defence solid, phase after phase, then box kick and a huge chase to get the ball back. Lineout....driving maul...try. Throughout their set up.... you know it’s Exeter. You hear Baxter, Sanderson, McCall speak...you listen.

We are light years away from this.
Spicer
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by Spicer »

Does anybody know anything about either Tom Young or Worth? The latter I guess failed the concussion checks, so could be out for a couple of weeks or so. OTY knee injury looked horrible with Cole falling on it. He'll be lucky if his ligaments are still in tact.
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by Snowdrop »

Not sure where to start. Hold on! Dickson. Garbage is too nice a word. Atrocious, lacking in courage to make obvious decisions, allowed himself to be swayed by the TMO and a more forceful Captain than ours. Dan had it right when he compared the no penalty try decision to "gentlemen's vegetables". If KD had any, Dan would have had ten minutes sat down for dissent. Can you register a complaint if you believe the officiating was pants?

I don't necessarily blame the coaches, because they don't coach players to be awful, some of our players manage that all by themselves. In the back line, only JH stood up. Even KE had an off day. GW might have if Dan hadn't sparked him out (reminiscent of his knocking Toby out in the Quins SF a few years ago). To rub salt in, he took TY out too.

Thought the forwards were ok, though why do they insist in one man trying to batter a hole between two of the opposition? Better lineouts today than we have seen recently.

A fair few of those playing today should be fearful of where they might be next year. If we persist with them, we should also fear that a day out in London might be a thing of the past.

The major problem was/is JF. Blimey he is bad. George and Joe are similar to buy one get one half price (or half the ability). Please stop playing him as he costs us games. Just not up to the task.

Considering all of the above and what we have had to endure for more time than we really should, we will return and support our team. It would just be nice if it wasn't through our fingers.
sam16111986
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by sam16111986 »

Ian Cant wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:03 pm True Tigers’ spirit shown today. Was,as usual at the game and yes, the tackling is still poor and Bristol will score tries next week.
However:
1) heads didn’t go down despite being unlucky with injuries ( in part due to Cole)
2) though we were unlucky with the two disallowed tries and their first came when, ax happened for much of the game, Sarries offside so Ford had to kick and they got the rebound.
3) Ford had his best game yet and at least he isn’t as arrogant as some other player reportedly demanding double his salary then brainlessly kicks the ball into them when there was a very good chance to counter and win the game)
4) Cole has shown he should be captain
5) We had as many missing as Sarries and, on another day, the refs decisions could go for us( seen, in other games this season, penalty tries given for the knock on and deliberate pull down of our rolling maul that, although we did shove them over would have saved time with a penalty try !)
6)listened to Murphy on the way home: told it like it was and hinted that the squad put together wasn’t good enough.
7) we did get a point which at half time seemed unlikely.
Please folks, give Murphy time and stop thinking about top four or top anything and take 1 game at a time.
Agree with much of that. Particularly the bit about Cole as captain. He got his message across to the referee very well, also his discipline was excellent.

What I don't agree with is the summary on Joe Ford. He was awful. In the build up to our first penalty we had an overlap on the left he hesitated then bottled the pass and ran into contact before wasting the advantage with a terribly measured chip for himself. Calling some awful plays, including a grubber whilst enjoying a two man overlap that resulted in Spencer's try. Stepping out the line forcing Eastmond to jam in and opening up the gap for the second try.

There was some improvement in the second half where he actually took a step forward before passing instead of taking the ball 10m behind the gain line running sideways and passing.

Hardwick was never in a position to counter. It was kick or get tackled. Kick wasn't a bad option it was just rushed and executed badly. Ball in hand he looked more direct but had little time to influence the game. Not unusual for players to have a jump in salary from academy/development squad into the first team.
BFG
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by BFG »

sam16111986 wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:25 pm
Ian Cant wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:03 pm True Tigers’ spirit shown today. Was,as usual at the game and yes, the tackling is still poor and Bristol will score tries next week.
However:
1) heads didn’t go down despite being unlucky with injuries ( in part due to Cole)
2) though we were unlucky with the two disallowed tries and their first came when, ax happened for much of the game, Sarries offside so Ford had to kick and they got the rebound.
3) Ford had his best game yet and at least he isn’t as arrogant as some other player reportedly demanding double his salary then brainlessly kicks the ball into them when there was a very good chance to counter and win the game)
4) Cole has shown he should be captain
5) We had as many missing as Sarries and, on another day, the refs decisions could go for us( seen, in other games this season, penalty tries given for the knock on and deliberate pull down of our rolling maul that, although we did shove them over would have saved time with a penalty try !)
6)listened to Murphy on the way home: told it like it was and hinted that the squad put together wasn’t good enough.
7) we did get a point which at half time seemed unlikely.
Please folks, give Murphy time and stop thinking about top four or top anything and take 1 game at a time.
Agree with much of that. Particularly the bit about Cole as captain. He got his message across to the referee very well, also his discipline was excellent.

What I don't agree with is the summary on Joe Ford. He was awful. In the build up to our first penalty we had an overlap on the left he hesitated then bottled the pass and ran into contact before wasting the advantage with a terribly measured chip for himself. Calling some awful plays, including a grubber whilst enjoying a two man overlap that resulted in Spencer's try. Stepping out the line forcing Eastmond to jam in and opening up the gap for the second try.

There was some improvement in the second half where he actually took a step forward before passing instead of taking the ball 10m behind the gain line running sideways and passing.

Hardwick was never in a position to counter. It was kick or get tackled. Kick wasn't a bad option it was just rushed and executed badly. Ball in hand he looked more direct but had little time to influence the game. Not unusual for players to have a jump in salary from academy/development squad into the first team.
Would that be the same as the option presented to Malins!
ourla
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by ourla »

I'm definitely not feeling as negative as others on here.

And I still find it football-esque how so many are calling for the coaching staff to be wiped out given how long they've had at it.
wormus
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by wormus »

Quote from Sam - "Agree with much of that. Particularly the bit about Cole as captain. He got his message across to the referee very well, also his discipline was excellent."
However the prize moment was Coley's stare at both the Ref and Brad Barritt possibly after advising his opinion on balls. Yes with Tom out then Coley would make a good Captain providing he refrains from emptying our bench!
The yellow card for the deliberate knock on would not have been given without the roars from the Crumbie, 3/10 for the ex Quin Dickson he missed a lot.
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by Jimmy Skitz »

contact to the head with his shoulder with a lot of force and no attempt to wrap, how was Dan Cole not sent off for that collision with George Worth?

On a serious note had the exact same happened but to Goode Cole would likely have been sent off when there was nothing he could do
sam16111986
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by sam16111986 »

wormus wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:46 pm Quote from Sam - "Agree with much of that. Particularly the bit about Cole as captain. He got his message across to the referee very well, also his discipline was excellent."
However the prize moment was Coley's stare at both the Ref and Brad Barritt possibly after advising his opinion on balls. Yes with Tom out then Coley would make a good Captain providing he refrains from emptying our bench!
The yellow card for the deliberate knock on would not have been given without the roars from the Crumbie, 3/10 for the ex Quin Dickson he missed a lot.
I thought Dickson did well in everything that was not big decision. He bottled big decisions as he seemed to be worried about making a decision that had a big impact on the game. He didn't want to give penalty tries and he didn't want to sin bin Goode. He also didn't want to give us a penalty late on with the clock in the red.

I hope Worth bounces back from that concussion he looked string for us at the back. Good positioning and strong under the ball, came into the line well. Lacks some pace but as he's also decent at centre that's the kind of useful squad man you need.
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by BFG »

Oh dear Sam, have you run out of cornflakes!
The ref sin binned two players and had Sarries down to 13 men for goodness sake, he certainly did penalise them!
Was it a penalty try, the question is does O'Connor run that if the pass is taken? It's close, but the odds on O'Connor getting caught short of the line are strong, so no penalty try, it was the right decision, as were the others!
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by ourla »

Regarding the penalty try or not. Regardless of my red, white and green specs here, I'd like the refs give these 50/50 calls in favour of the attacking side. Teams are very well coached these days and players are well conditioned so defences can often survive 20 phase attacks. So I think when I team does make that breakthrough any attempts by a defensive team should be heavily even harshly punished. Sure, the ref couldn't be 100% sure the runner would have got over. In fact who knows what might happen, he may not catch it, he may screw up the grounding. Fact is a defender is going to have to come from behind and make an extraordinary tackle and it was a very cynical knock on. I am not particularly having a go at Dickson who I actually thought had a good game. I think a subtle change of emphasis would hopefully force players to make cynical fouls like this. Another one they mentioned on the TV was when playing advantage for a penalty defences will often make a cynical second penalty to save a try and not get a yellow.
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Re: Tigers vs Saracens

Post by Tomvarndell »

ourla wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:53 am Regarding the penalty try or not. Regardless of my red, white and green specs here, I'd like the refs give these 50/50 calls in favour of the attacking side. Teams are very well coached these days and players are well conditioned so defences can often survive 20 phase attacks. So I think when I team does make that breakthrough any attempts by a defensive team should be heavily even harshly punished. Sure, the ref couldn't be 100% sure the runner would have got over. In fact who knows what might happen, he may not catch it, he may screw up the grounding. Fact is a defender is going to have to come from behind and make an extraordinary tackle and it was a very cynical knock on. I am not particularly having a go at Dickson who I actually thought had a good game. I think a subtle change of emphasis would hopefully force players to make cynical fouls like this. Another one they mentioned on the TV was when playing advantage for a penalty defences will often make a cynical second penalty to save a try and not get a yellow.
I agree with all of this. Further to the Alex Goode cynical offside, I didn’t see a replay of that offence but surely again a penalty try should have been considered. From my one view he seemed to have stopped a near certain try by being offside to intercept the pass.
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