Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

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RagingBull
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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by RagingBull » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:39 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:24 pm
This whole thread is frankly ridiculous in my opinion. Pretending any player considers playing for Tigers over their country is just a complete load of rubbish. Some fans on here may consider club rugby the highlight, but the fraction of players that do is tiny.

See how long Tigers last if they become known as a team that actively doesn't want its players to play in world cups/internationals.

Toomua will miss about 5 premiership games this season because of internationals, the same as all the England internationals in the squad. If you honestly think that the club wouldn't have willingly paid a marquee salary for a player that is a current international then what do you think the marquee salary is for? Over the hill SH players that are moving for the money? Tigers will get some financial compensation from releasing him a year early, they're run as a successful business and know how professional contracts work.

I'd rather have any top class international in our team that misses a handful of games than try and sign someone who is playing just for the higher salary. I'll be sorry to see Toomua go, and I'm perfectly happy with the decisions he has made.
Toomua signed with tigers knowing his International career would be over though.
Does anyone really think that if Toomua didn't have that 1 stand out season and was say injured for most of it he would have been picked by Aus?

Tigers also get nothing from the early release BTW that was confirmed by Cohen unfortunately.

The problem is we didn't know this would be happening till in the off season where most deals are do by sheer luck Eastmond was still without a club otherwise who knows who we might have brought in Johnny McJohnnyson from the Dunedin 5th team.

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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by jgriffin » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:05 pm

I personally think To'omua has had his money's worth from us, but the reverse not so. Eastmond, reviled by many and paid a lot less than MT, has been a revelation. It's the same with many clubs, and perhaps better to take the Chiefs route of home-grown and just-below-international signings - as Eastmond has turned out to be. You'll always get the Nowells, Genges and Holmes situations, but that's life. Frankly I'd like to see one marquee per team at the most.
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Dr H Flashman MBE
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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by Dr H Flashman MBE » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:26 pm

I am not a huge fan of marquee players. I think for shirt sales and bums on seats they are a winner. Possibly for the younger players too from a learning point of view. However, if you sign a marquee player who is eligible to play for their country, you run this risk. Tigers are a business, and quite successful at that. So having a Matt T is a winner. He comes across as a bloke who you could have a beer with or stick with a load of corporate types and he would charm them. So from a business prospective that is gold. The issue of playing can only be really resolved by signing a player who is retired and then we have him for the season. Or risk a Matt T type and live with the knowledge that once the secret is out and he is that good, country wins over club.
The Crane thing is a good point. Loyal to Tigers and took lots of grief from this board, but always showed up. Can’t have it both ways.
For what my opinion is worth I don’t blame him wanting to play in a World Cup. Garbage timing and how it came out but can’t blame him. If I was in his shoes I would do the same, no matter how much I love my Club.
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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by Cardiff Tig » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:30 pm

The things is that any of the players that we sign to cover international windows could have a blinder of a season and get called up, especially in a world Cup season where every international coach worth his salt will bend the rules to get the best 23 he can on the field.

Who exactly should Tigers have signed instead as a world class 10/12? I bet there's very few realistic players out there that most fans would take over having Toomua here but missing for the international windows.

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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by johnthegriff » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:42 pm

Waldrom was signed as cover for Crane who was expected to be away with England unfortunately Crane got injured and Thomas discovered that he had an English Grandma, he then dropped Tigers in it as he disappeared to play for a country to whom he had no loyalty and no previous ambitions of playing for yet is regarded as a hero by many, who then castigate and ridicule an honest player who always gave of his best for the club simply because Cocker often selected him ahead of the New Zealander.
No doubt it is the same people who are blaming Matt Toomua for answering his country's call. Matt T came on a two year contract, missed the first year due to injury and signed to extend his time with us thinking his chance of a World Cup soot was nil, that turned out not to be so.
Personally I don't like marquee players and think they should be abolished as they are inflationary, the cap was introduced to keep things fair between teams with no wage advantage to the richer clubs or owners. A marquee player comes in on a very high wage, an existing international player at the club demands a comparable wage, others remember it is a team game and want a bigger share of the pot, result smaller squads, player burn out from too much rugby and the foreign marquee mercenaries clear off to France or Japan for another big pay day before retirement.

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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by jgriffin » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:40 pm

Too true!
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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by Dr H Flashman MBE » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:00 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:42 pm
Waldrom was signed as cover for Crane who was expected to be away with England unfortunately Crane got injured and Thomas discovered that he had an English Grandma, he then dropped Tigers in it as he disappeared to play for a country to whom he had no loyalty and no previous ambitions of playing for yet is regarded as a hero by many, who then castigate and ridicule an honest player who always gave of his best for the club simply because Cocker often selected him ahead of the New Zealander.
No doubt it is the same people who are blaming Matt Toomua for answering his country's call. Matt T came on a two year contract, missed the first year due to injury and signed to extend his time with us thinking his chance of a World Cup soot was nil, that turned out not to be so.
Personally I don't like marquee players and think they should be abolished as they are inflationary, the cap was introduced to keep things fair between teams with no wage advantage to the richer clubs or owners. A marquee player comes in on a very high wage, an existing international player at the club demands a comparable wage, others remember it is a team game and want a bigger share of the pot, result smaller squads, player burn out from too much rugby and the foreign marquee mercenaries clear off to France or Japan for another big pay day before retirement.
:smt038
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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by LE18 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:11 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:42 pm
Waldrom was signed as cover for Crane who was expected to be away with England unfortunately Crane got injured and Thomas discovered that he had an English Grandma, he then dropped Tigers in it as he disappeared to play for a country to whom he had no loyalty and no previous ambitions of playing for yet is regarded as a hero by many, who then castigate and ridicule an honest player who always gave of his best for the club simply because Cocker often selected him ahead of the New Zealander.
No doubt it is the same people who are blaming Matt Toomua for answering his country's call. Matt T came on a two year contract, missed the first year due to injury and signed to extend his time with us thinking his chance of a World Cup soot was nil, that turned out not to be so.
Personally I don't like marquee players and think they should be abolished as they are inflationary, the cap was introduced to keep things fair between teams with no wage advantage to the richer clubs or owners. A marquee player comes in on a very high wage, an existing international player at the club demands a comparable wage, others remember it is a team game and want a bigger share of the pot, result smaller squads, player burn out from too much rugby and the foreign marquee mercenaries clear off to France or Japan for another big pay day before retirement.
Sorry John but I don't agree with some of your points. Crane was not good enough for England, yes he went to America with England Saxons, but proved he was not good enough. Crane continued to block Waldron out at the Tigers, England thought that Waldron was better than Crane. Toomua leaving is not good but he blocked no one out, he was the best for that position, Im sure he did not know that Aus. would want him for the world cup, wouldn't you go if selected?
Its time however to stop talking about Crane and Waldron, they are history.

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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by jgriffin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:12 am

TTTE vastly overrated. Lazy poacher with poor scrum control for at least a season. Attitude an issue, only really cured at Chiefs. I don't rate Crane much either. Now BOC for me is a country mile better, can watch his work all match. :smt023
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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by LE18 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:01 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:12 am
TTTE vastly overrated. Lazy poacher with poor scrum control for at least a season. Attitude an issue, only really cured at Chiefs. I don't rate Crane much either. Now BOC for me is a country mile better, can watch his work all match. :smt023
Keep your eye on Guy Thomson, arguably better!

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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by jgriffin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:17 pm

LE18 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:01 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:12 am
TTTE vastly overrated. Lazy poacher with poor scrum control for at least a season. Attitude an issue, only really cured at Chiefs. I don't rate Crane much either. Now BOC for me is a country mile better, can watch his work all match. :smt023
Keep your eye on Guy Thomson, arguably better!
Almost certainly as good. Next season may well be vintage!
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A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by Soggypitch » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:31 pm

LE18 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:01 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:12 am
TTTE vastly overrated. Lazy poacher with poor scrum control for at least a season. Attitude an issue, only really cured at Chiefs. I don't rate Crane much either. Now BOC for me is a country mile better, can watch his work all match. :smt023
Keep your eye on Guy Thomson, arguably better!
I agree Thomson and BOC are both great players, but give me an overrated lazy poacher any day, if he is top try scorer in the Prem two seasons running!!
Soggypitch

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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by BFG » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:43 pm

Soggypitch wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:31 pm
LE18 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:01 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:12 am
TTTE vastly overrated. Lazy poacher with poor scrum control for at least a season. Attitude an issue, only really cured at Chiefs. I don't rate Crane much either. Now BOC for me is a country mile better, can watch his work all match. :smt023
Keep your eye on Guy Thomson, arguably better!
I agree Thomson and BOC are both great players, but give me an overrated lazy poacher any day, if he is top try scorer in the Prem two seasons running!!
What use is white line fever without Ewers and Armand to shove you over!

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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by jgriffin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:41 pm

BFG wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:43 pm
Soggypitch wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:31 pm
LE18 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:01 pm


Keep your eye on Guy Thomson, arguably better!
I agree Thomson and BOC are both great players, but give me an overrated lazy poacher any day, if he is top try scorer in the Prem two seasons running!!
What use is white line fever without Ewers and Armand to shove you over!
Exactly my Chiefs mates gripe
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Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

teds
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Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by teds » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:06 pm

DingDong wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:50 am
It's a job, circumstances change, sportsmen get injured.

Instead of sucking lemons, why don't you celebrate the positives Toomua has brought to the club in the short time he's been here? Prior to MT our back line lacked any attacking prowess since Bowden left. I'm glad he came and re-invigourated our back line, now move on - pleeeease!!!
I am also glad Toomua came to us. To be frank he has put us back on the map. Moreover I think he is one of the reasons the Tigers seem to have a happy vibe in the squad. On the playing front, he has shown players like Hardwick and indeed George Ford, the levels they need to aspire to.

With Ford and Eastmond we have one of the best 10-12 partnerships in the league. Add in Toomua we have a player skilled and intelligent enough to fill either’s boots if injury hits, but also an option to change the game plan as needed.

So let’s win the league this season, while he is still here.

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