Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

DingDong
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:06 am

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by DingDong » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:47 am

RagingBull wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:19 pm
How exactly has Toomua put us back on the map?
Because prior to the 20117/18 season we constantly mixed the 10/12 line ups eg: Williams/Tait, Mermoz/Roberts, Roberts/Betham, Williams/Roberts, Mermoz/Smith etc etc. Our pattern/style of play was as inconsistent as the selections. Toomua's world class experience imparted into the backline and sure enough, we started the 2017/18 season consistently well, but more importantly we had options in attack, a plan B when things went tits up!! and also a better affiliation amongst the players. Just because Toomua got injured, it didn't stop his input on the training ground, and that possibly was the continuity that has helped our backline's resurgence in recent times.

All this is just an opinion Raging Bull, but I can remember very well sitting in the stands watching a clueless backline (full of talent!) for virtually an entire season, play the sort of rugby that would possibly beat a lot of sides, but not have a cat in hells chance of beating the teams that matter ie carries and Wasps et all.

Now that we finally have a punching and dynamic back row, the Youngs/Ford/Toomua combination i'm sure will put people like Manu through the gaps instead of just smashing into brick walls, and also give our excellent wings/FB space to carve up. :smt045

BengalTiger
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by BengalTiger » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:55 am

johnthegriff wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:45 am
I am pretty certain IRB rules do not permit contracts that prevent a player turning out for his country if selected.
A well wrtten contract would not prevent a player playing for his country, but a player signed as an ex-international on marquee wages should expect a reduction in that wage pro-rata to his availabilty if he returns to international rugby.

There is nothing in the regulations to prevent this but Tigers have failed again to protect thier interests!

RagingBull
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8706
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by RagingBull » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:03 am

And you are saying that the attack in 2017/18 had a plan B? Because I really didn’t see it if that’s was the case.

Also didn’t we have a really bad start last season?

voice of the crumbie
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1806
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:25 pm
Location: coalville

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by voice of the crumbie » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:15 pm

BengalTiger wrote:
johnthegriff wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:45 am
I am pretty certain IRB rules do not permit contracts that prevent a player turning out for his country if selected.
A well wrtten contract would not prevent a player playing for his country, but a player signed as an ex-international on marquee wages should expect a reduction in that wage pro-rata to his availabilty if he returns to international rugby.

There is nothing in the regulations to prevent this but Tigers have failed again to protect thier interests!
How do you know that Tigers have failed to protect their interests Bengal Tiger? They may have just such a contract as the one you describe with Toomua or are you privy to the contract details? I seem to remember that when Lewis Moody left to join Bath one of the reasons was that he was offered a contract based on the number of games played. If Tigers could suggest provisions such as that back then why not now?
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7270
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by jgriffin » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:32 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:03 am
And you are saying that the attack in 2017/18 had a plan B? Because I really didn’t see it if that’s was the case.

Also didn’t we have a really bad start last season?
No MOC side had a Plan B, only senior players who decide to play what's in front of them regardless (e.g. Flood) or have a grinding pack to fall back on (e.g. up to 2014).
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3121
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by BFG » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:50 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:32 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:03 am
And you are saying that the attack in 2017/18 had a plan B? Because I really didn’t see it if that’s was the case.

Also didn’t we have a really bad start last season?
No MOC side had a Plan B, only senior players who decide to play what's in front of them regardless (e.g. Flood) or have a grinding pack to fall back on (e.g. up to 2014).
To be fair to MOC, and it's also my own personal view, top level players should be expected to play what is in front of them off script.
As player attributes have evolved into bigger and faster pre-programmed robots so to has the importance of mass coaching.
Possibly something that has caught a few of the old guard out.
Even England are struggling, Carling in as a leadership mentor, full international players needing leadership mentoring. :smt017
The academy generation is in full swing in England, lost wothout their games consoles and Mummy.
Toomua like many Aussies is of a different ilk, it's why he should've played 10 under MOC and why we need him with the others away now in my opinion.

moorsman1
Tiger Cub
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by moorsman1 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:00 pm

To be fair to MOC, and it's also my own personal view, top level players should be expected to play what is in front of them off script.
As player attributes have evolved into bigger and faster pre-programmed robots so to has the importance of mass coaching.
Possibly something that has caught a few of the old guard out.
Even England are struggling, Carling in as a leadership mentor, full international players needing leadership mentoring. :smt017
The academy generation is in full swing in England, lost wothout their games consoles and Mummy.
Toomua like many Aussies is of a different ilk, it's why he should've played 10 under MOC and why we need him with the others away now in my opinion.

:smt038

RagingBull
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8706
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by RagingBull » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:03 pm

Not sure what the academy generation has to do with it.

It’s the same with every other nations players who are of th same age might as well add back in my day in that statement to complete the entire image.

BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3121
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by BFG » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:01 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:03 pm
Not sure what the academy generation has to do with it.

It’s the same with every other nations players who are of th same age might as well add back in my day in that statement to complete the entire image.
Outside of play by numbers is where the real quality is.
England select youngsters to play by numbers and try to teach other qualities, other nations select quality and try to teach it play by numbers.
If you can't see that then we are really struggling to communicate.
Watching Glaws v Briz tonight and it was shockingly dire, and it's not often Toby sounds bemused.
Someone said Toomua has been underused, I get that, but I'd possibly choose misused instead.
I'm not that surprised that he has chosen not to stay for longer, it doesn't actually look that enjoyable to play, but as a fan of rugby I am disappointed.

RagingBull
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8706
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by RagingBull » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:06 pm

But he did choose to stay for longer hence the contract but the World Cup proved to big a draw once Cheika told him he was in his plans.

BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3121
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by BFG » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:13 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:06 pm
But he did choose to stay for longer hence the contract but the World Cup proved to big a draw once Cheika told him he was in his plans.
Choose to stay longer than he is doing!!!

jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7270
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by jgriffin » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:59 pm

moorsman1 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:00 pm
To be fair to MOC, and it's also my own personal view, top level players should be expected to play what is in front of them off script.
As player attributes have evolved into bigger and faster pre-programmed robots so to has the importance of mass coaching.
Possibly something that has caught a few of the old guard out.
Even England are struggling, Carling in as a leadership mentor, full international players needing leadership mentoring. :smt017
The academy generation is in full swing in England, lost wothout their games consoles and Mummy.
Toomua like many Aussies is of a different ilk, it's why he should've played 10 under MOC and why we need him with the others away now in my opinion.

:smt038
I would never be tempted to 'be fair' to MOC since my posts from about 2011 onwards would show me to be hypocritical. Absolutely no quarter I'm afraid.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2037
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:53 am
Location: Barrowford, near the Witches

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:58 am

When we signed him we signed one of the top 12's in world rugby, there are not many better.
When he left ARU rules prevented him playing for them, the rules got altered.
His wife due to her sporting credentials can't live here with him. (If/when they have children they will definitely get sporting genes)
They are desperate to get him back & have seriously changed their rules to do so.
Is it disappointing he is leaving yes, will he try his all for the rest of the season yes (he is an aussie).
None of us on here have any idea about his thoughts on all this, but I think he will leave having had a positive input into the club & if the other players haven't learnt from him they are daft.


Stransky was sat a few rows down from me at the Brive final, I was genuinely worried he would return to SA after that game. (One of the best players we have every had at Tigers)
To win is not as important as playing with style!

RagingBull
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8706
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by RagingBull » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:36 am

They haven’t changed their rules to get him though.

Just used a loophole.

jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7270
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Toomua Call Up - Cake and Eat IT

Post by jgriffin » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:08 am

BFG wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:01 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:03 pm
Not sure what the academy generation has to do with it.

It’s the same with every other nations players who are of th same age might as well add back in my day in that statement to complete the entire image.
Outside of play by numbers is where the real quality is.
England select youngsters to play by numbers and try to teach other qualities, other nations select quality and try to teach it play by numbers.
If you can't see that then we are really struggling to communicate.
Watching Glaws v Briz tonight and it was shockingly dire, and it's not often Toby sounds bemused.
Someone said Toomua has been underused, I get that, but I'd possibly choose misused instead.
I'm not that surprised that he has chosen not to stay for longer, it doesn't actually look that enjoyable to play, but as a fan of rugby I am disappointed.
Glaws v Briz was interesting in a dire way. If you try something twice and it fails, keep trying the same thing. The back play reminded me of us in our MOC era lateral and static for much of the game. It was instructive to watch OW struggling to do anything constructive. He looked nothing like the player he was with us. If he'd come back cheaper, deffo 10/12 replacement and spend the marquee on a top forward.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bungle178 and 2 guests