Missing Players

[Smudge]

Like most I was very disappointed with our play on Saturday, especially in the second half.
They changed tactics in the second half and we had no answer. Considering there were several players who have
rugby brains, this was surprising. Once our Captain left the field it was as if no one was in charge. Very worrying.
Talking to another old friend we acknowledged the fact we were short of some very good players but like me, he
was underwhelmed by the clubs communication to the fans in the matter.
Why on earth have we been without our best player for four weeks after a ball in the face? Protocol?
We know that Genge is out until January but why?
We also know and feel agrieved about Spencer's abcence and what a miss he is to the lineout!
Why is Matt Tait still missing? Fitzgerald, Denton, May, Kitchener, Evans, Worth? How near are they to a return?
There is no doubt we have some serious talent missing which is some excuse for our overall form but surely there is a leader
lurking among the players available?

[WhitecapTiger]

Why on earth have we been without our best player for four weeks after a ball in the face? Protocol?

Well, after having his (Veainu) jaw broken in a collision previously against Munster, he and the club may well be playing it cautious with returns - if he wasn't fit to return after the 6 day minimum concussion protocols that was possible then it may/will naturally take longer.

This linked article could also have an effect on why the club don't release details (not directly but similar circumstances):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45656051

Players certainly have a right to have details of their injuries kept out of the public domain. We (supporters) have no right to details - though I concede it would ease gossip and speculation, but if a player has asked otherwise then dousing curiosity and a sense of supporter entitlement takes second place. (Generic not specific individuals before any offence is taken).

We also know and feel aggrieved about Spencer's absence and what a miss he is to the lineout!

He's a loss in the open too but it's hardly the club's fault and I'm sure he'll be raring to go on Friday.

Why is Matt Tait still missing? Fitzgerald, Denton, May, Kitchener, Evans, Worth? How near are they to a return?

Not sure knowing specific details of returns etc would be beneficial other than to suppress the hungry supporters. There's also the aspect of opponents having prior knowledge - though how relevant that remains these days is debatable - but could be used to their advantage, particularly for returning players.

Like most I was very disappointed with our play on Saturday, especially in the second half.
They changed tactics in the second half and we had no answer. Considering there were several players who have
rugby brains, this was surprising. Once our Captain left the field it was as if no one was in charge. Very worrying.

There is no doubt we have some serious talent missing which is some excuse for our overall form but surely there is a leader
lurking among the players available?

A mystery, Ford is visibly trying and Guy Thompson is constantly geeing the lads up from what I've seen but as has been discussed elsewhere it seems to be more of a confidence thing, heads go down too quickly and you're damned right, that's where a leader needs to step up and encourage, cajole and inspire but also lay down the law if/as/when needs be, make decisions rather than discuss options, put the onus on areas of strength e.g. scrum rather than continue with areas that are letting us own e.g. lineout. Maybe some players have an issue with being 'led'.

Genge has been mooted for an earlier return than the original prognosis of 'early next year' - with dates of Dec and even October heard around the bazaars - only the player and the club (coaches/medics) really know and if he is suffering setbacks surely passing that information on would only be condemned in some way by some supporters.

This discussion/topic surfaces regularly, maybe indicative of repeated dissatisfaction with lack of information, but the answer stays the same...(and I believe it has also been asked/answered at supporters' nights) the club do not have to divulge anything, as above links suggests, players may ask them not to as it's private, privileged information and other than supporters being fed information what else does it / would it achieve?

Besides, if the information changes day to day, week to week as it probably does, and the club push that out they only get accused of changing the goalposts - damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[ghdav27]

I dont' really buy into this theory that players have the right to privacy over their injuries and why they'd want/need it. Other clubs announce all of their injuries and as soon as players get picked for international teams it gets announced who's injured and for how long. Also I can't think of another sport where there is any secrecy over injuries.
It would reduce a lot of supporter confusion and frustration if they just said who was injured and for how long!

[sapajo]

I believe we are nurtured just like mushrooms kept in the dark and sustained by the manure served on the pitch! For me it simply beggars belief to even countenance the baloney that any injury update merely serves to hand an advantage to our opponents.

[WhitecapTiger]

For me it simply beggars belief to even countenance the baloney that any injury update merely serves to hand an advantage to our opponents.

I didn't say I supported it, simply that it may be a reason why details are withheld.

[h's dad]

For me it simply beggars belief to even countenance the baloney that any injury update merely serves to hand an advantage to our opponents.

I didn't say I supported it, simply that it may be a reason why details are withheld.

Doesn't it beggar belief that a professional sports team would not prepare in advance for the team it is likely to face well before the announcement of the line up in team sheets? And that the more unknown that line up is the harder it is to prepare? If you find it frustrating, try and consider how much more so it is for coaches trying to put a game plan together that takes into account the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition.

[ghdav27]

For me it simply beggars belief to even countenance the baloney that any injury update merely serves to hand an advantage to our opponents.

I didn't say I supported it, simply that it may be a reason why details are withheld.

Doesn't it beggar belief that a professional sports team would not prepare in advance for the team it is likely to face well before the announcement of the line up in team sheets? And that the more unknown that line up is the harder it is to prepare? If you find it frustrating, try and consider how much more so it is for coaches trying to put a game plan together that takes into account the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition.

Bristol (and I think wasps (and maybe other clubs as well)) post a list of unavailable players when they announce their team. That seems a reasonable approach to me as it doesn't give anything away to the opposition.

[h's dad]

I didn't say I supported it, simply that it may be a reason why details are withheld.

Doesn't it beggar belief that a professional sports team would not prepare in advance for the team it is likely to face well before the announcement of the line up in team sheets? And that the more unknown that line up is the harder it is to prepare? If you find it frustrating, try and consider how much more so it is for coaches trying to put a game plan together that takes into account the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition.

Bristol (and I think wasps (and maybe other clubs as well)) post a list of unavailable players when they announce their team. That seems a reasonable approach to me as it doesn't give anything away to the opposition.

It's just a one word comment isn't it? Is it really the teamsheet which they are obliged to provide along with what is essentially also a list of players who haven't been picked for the day?

Obviously a club can provide as much information about unavailable players as it wants but surely most of us can see that there is value in knowing as much as possible about the composition of the opposition and their strengths and weaknesses several weeks or more in advance?

[WhitecapTiger]

For me it simply beggars belief to even countenance the baloney that any injury update merely serves to hand an advantage to our opponents.

I didn't say I supported it, simply that it may be a reason why details are withheld.

Doesn't it beggar belief that a professional sports team would not prepare in advance for the team it is likely to face well before the announcement of the line up in team sheets? And that the more unknown that line up is the harder it is to prepare? If you find it frustrating, try and consider how much more so it is for coaches trying to put a game plan together that takes into account the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition.

I don't find it frustrating at all, fully understand it and don't feel a sense of entitlement to know specific details in advance, or otherwise

[h's dad]

I don't find it frustrating at all, fully understand it and don't feel a sense of entitlement to know specific details in advance, or otherwise

Although I attached my comment to yours, I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were struggling to grasp the importance of information Whitecap. My apologies if it seemed that I was so doing.

[WhitecapTiger]

I don't find it frustrating at all, fully understand it and don't feel a sense of entitlement to know specific details in advance, or otherwise

Although I attached my comment to yours, I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were struggling to grasp the importance of information Whitecap. My apologies if it seemed that I was so doing.

No apology necessary at all h's dad, I got your gist and certainly not offended - just clarifying my stance

[Smudge]

What I probably didn't make clear is that although we are scathing about our club's performance, we were in fact
without 9 or 10 first choice players. Had they played, I feel sure (but not certain) that the result would have been different.
The TV and press coverage were talking about that team as if it was the best team we could field and making no mention
of the absence of Telusa or Johnny and the others who are world class and greatly missed.

I share the frustration of many fans that we are kept in the dark over injuries . We would all have so much more confidence if we were informed of the injury situation.

[Grimlish]

I share the frustration of many fans that we are kept in the dark over injuries . We would all have so much more confidence if we were informed of the injury situation.

But it’s not about our confidence is it? It’s about the team winning & if that means keeping the oppo guessing what our team will be....

[Smudge]

I believe it is about our confidence as members or supporters but not exclusively. The team's confidence should come with wins but also from the ability of the coaches and their analysis of the opposition. They also need confidence in the selection of their fellow players and the skills set they bring to the game. And yes, the team needs confidence in the leadership of their captain and his calls in tight situations.

[h's dad]

I believe it is about our confidence as members or supporters but not exclusively. The team's confidence should come with wins but also from the ability of the coaches and their analysis of the opposition. They also need confidence in the selection of their fellow players and the skills set they bring to the game. And yes, the team needs confidence in the leadership of their captain and his calls in tight situations.

Absolutely spot on. "the ability of the coaches and their analysis of the opposition." And also doing everything that can be done to frustrate the opposition's analysis of our guys.