Tigers v Sale

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LE18
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by LE18 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:14 pm

MrPartridge wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:02 pm
Love the player ratings BTW... Cole, shadow of his former self (5), Kitchener, good game (5).... Is it me...

Tait out until after Christmas, possibly longer... (sorry not to have better news)...
Cole ought to be getting ratings of 8, hence shadow, Kitchener often gets bad reviews, 5 is a goodish assessment he was good in the loose and lineout, contrary to what many say on here.

teds
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by teds » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:36 pm

Mark62 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:58 pm
Fair enough not what I saw but there you go. Wasn’t his best game but to say he was a shadow of his former self is harsh. I actually think his ability to get to the break down quickly is hindering him as he is then in the defensive line against quicker players. Maybe he needs to be told to stay wider with the other fat boys
I think you are spot on, Mark62. Cole made 14 tackles according to ESPN, which is generally pretty good for a prop. Maybe not a great game, but good enough.

Cole is not the reason Tigers are struggling.

wellstiger
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by wellstiger » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:52 am

Please lets not take anything away from either team.
Tigers have issues in defence and were trying hard to rectify. No excuses but we have selection/injury issues. On a positive we are blooding Academy players early in the season to build on, something I have posted on previously.

Sale have their own problems, they are fighting to get off bottom spot. As Steve Diamond has alluded to they have had defeats that could have gone either way. As of late which team would not have targeted Tigers and Diamond possibly saw that this was a chance to turn Tigers over.
Pre match was both Murphy and Diamond stated that the game the pack would try to dominate.

For me it was evident that this was the case so both teams cancelled each other out. Resulting in a Tigers team low on confidence in defence putting in a relatively better performance and a Sale team who could yet again have won the game.
Small margins......Ford for me was the difference with a good shift from Denton.

BG01
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by BG01 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:53 pm

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:48 pm
Mark62 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:41 pm
LE18 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:24 pm
Having sufficiently recovered i'm going to try to rate each players performance.

1 Bateman worked really hard in loose etc, got pinged a couple of times in scrum. 5
2 Youngs, ditto, much improved lineout, 6
3 Cole, shadow of his former self, 5
4 Williams, worked really hard in tight, 5
5 Kitchener, good game, 5
6, Denton, works really hard, good signing, 7
7 Thompson, good signing, some good turnovers, 7
8 Kalamafoni, bit quite yesterday, worked really hard, but nothing flash, 6
9 White, tried hard before injury, 4, replaced by Ben, must stop him box kicking, 3
10, Ford, class act kicked well, tackled bravely, 8
11 May, often out of position when needed on his wing, our most potent attacker, 7
12, Eastmond, played well, able to create half openings, 6
13, Owen, ditto, 6
14, Thompstone, almost anonymous, 4
15, Olowefela, sadly out of position so many times, must let ball bounce, 3

My marks make it look better than it was, guess others will have different opinions. Scraped a win against a poor Sale side, who would have beaten us if they had kicked the goals.
In what way is Cole a shadow of his former self
Agree with LE18, Cole was poor. I know he held his side of the scrum up and won a penalty but more is expected of props these days. He got ran around in defence, did nothing at the breakdown and hardly made any ground ball in hand. Bateman was the better prop out of the two of them and has been all season.
I'm not sure the stats back this up.

They both passed twice and ran 6 times, with Bateman managing just two metres, and Cole a slightly better four metres. Bateman made 12 tackles and missed two, while Cole made 14 tackles and missed just one. Bateman conceded a turnover, while Cole didn't. And Bateman conceded two penalties, while Cole didn't concede any.

I appreciate that there's more to life than stats, but if your criticism of Cole is that his defence was poor and did nothing with ball in hand then you should note that he did better than Bateman on both fronts.
Never believe generalisations

voice of the crumbie
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by voice of the crumbie » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm

Given how rubbish our defence has been I'm absolutely delighted that Cole and Bateman made so many tackles. They weren't the only ones. It may have been a poor game but at least we improved our defence which is what we were all asking for following the Worcester debacle. Still plenty to work on but a step in the right direction.
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

sam16111986
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:27 pm

BG01 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:53 pm
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:48 pm
Mark62 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:41 pm


In what way is Cole a shadow of his former self
Agree with LE18, Cole was poor. I know he held his side of the scrum up and won a penalty but more is expected of props these days. He got ran around in defence, did nothing at the breakdown and hardly made any ground ball in hand. Bateman was the better prop out of the two of them and has been all season.
I'm not sure the stats back this up.

They both passed twice and ran 6 times, with Bateman managing just two metres, and Cole a slightly better four metres. Bateman made 12 tackles and missed two, while Cole made 14 tackles and missed just one. Bateman conceded a turnover, while Cole didn't. And Bateman conceded two penalties, while Cole didn't concede any.

I appreciate that there's more to life than stats, but if your criticism of Cole is that his defence was poor and did nothing with ball in hand then you should note that he did better than Bateman on both fronts.
I'm unsurprised the stats look better for Cole. Just because he isn't doing anything flashy he's bemoaned. He's a tighthead, he should scrum, lift and hit things. Anything else is a bonus.

Bateman gives away penalties at the scrum and has been caught out in defence (pretty sure he left a massive hole for one of the Wuss tries when he drifted out and didn't communicate with his inside man). He's a good AP level loosehead but will be benching when Genge returns.

drc_007
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by drc_007 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:38 am

Cole has also played 367 mins of premiership rugby so far this season, I suspect this the most by any prop in the premiership.

chewbacca
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by chewbacca » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:44 am

Cole has been overplayed by both Tigers and particularly England. It takes its toll.
I'm not cynical just experienced

DingDong
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by DingDong » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:05 am

Cole is an absolute asset to Tigers, always solid and immense in the tight, there are seven other players in the pack who can be flashy if they like, worth every penny to any squad that man!

4071
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by 4071 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:33 pm

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:48 pm
Mark62 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:41 pm
LE18 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:24 pm
Having sufficiently recovered i'm going to try to rate each players performance.

1 Bateman worked really hard in loose etc, got pinged a couple of times in scrum. 5
2 Youngs, ditto, much improved lineout, 6
3 Cole, shadow of his former self, 5
4 Williams, worked really hard in tight, 5
5 Kitchener, good game, 5
6, Denton, works really hard, good signing, 7
7 Thompson, good signing, some good turnovers, 7
8 Kalamafoni, bit quite yesterday, worked really hard, but nothing flash, 6
9 White, tried hard before injury, 4, replaced by Ben, must stop him box kicking, 3
10, Ford, class act kicked well, tackled bravely, 8
11 May, often out of position when needed on his wing, our most potent attacker, 7
12, Eastmond, played well, able to create half openings, 6
13, Owen, ditto, 6
14, Thompstone, almost anonymous, 4
15, Olowefela, sadly out of position so many times, must let ball bounce, 3

My marks make it look better than it was, guess others will have different opinions. Scraped a win against a poor Sale side, who would have beaten us if they had kicked the goals.
In what way is Cole a shadow of his former self
Agree with LE18, Cole was poor. I know he held his side of the scrum up and won a penalty but more is expected of props these days. He got ran around in defence, did nothing at the breakdown and hardly made any ground ball in hand. Bateman was the better prop out of the two of them and has been all season.
Cole tackled more than Bateman, made (marginally) more metres and won two penalties while Bateman conceded two. Neither had a strong game at the breakdown.

Cole's not been at his best for a some time, but he was our best prop against Sale. Despite a relatively quiet contribution outside the set piece.

I'd have rated Cole a 5 and Bateman a 4, with Cole's scrummaging being enough to put him in front.

sam16111986
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by sam16111986 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:01 pm

drc_007 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:38 am
Cole has also played 367 mins of premiership rugby so far this season, I suspect this the most by any prop in the premiership.
That's the concern. He had a full preseason which may have helped more had we had a DOR who had turned up on time and actually cared about fitness. A summer off should have helped him recharge but even so I would have thought he'd have had one game off by now. Injuries and Cortes sudden involvement with his national team havent helped.

BigDan50
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Re: Tigers v Sale

Post by BigDan50 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:58 pm

I really worry about Cole the amount of game time he plays, Cockers played him far to much, it seems all our coaches overplay him, I hope he is not a broken man when he reaches middle age.

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