Tigers v Warriors

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RagingBull
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by RagingBull » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:54 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:46 pm
Disappointing from Leicester again and not to even be able to hold out at 37-37 against Worcester at Welford Road is not great.
You can't have mates as coaches in my opinion, how on earth they are supposed to get a dressing down after that I do not know.
It's almost become calamitous.
I remember Brendan Venter arriving at Sarries and soon after culling those 18 players, something similar required here.
Leicester requires a new man of that type from completely outside the Leicester bubble, in sole charge to stand and fall by his own decisions and pick his own team of coaches and players, a man of the right calibre will require that control.
Talk of Sarries building around home grown players when Venter arrived is total tosh as I recall a side packed with South Africans and recruits such as Borthwick from Bath, Brown from Galsgow, Vyvian from Newcastle, Botha from Bedford, Wigglesworth from Sale, Strettle from Quins etc.
There were very few home grown players at that time, maybe Farrell, George, Goode being the only survivors.
The proper coach will keep the right quality and the rest will go!
I'm not sure Leicester are brave enough to go outside of their comfort zone enough to achieve this!
From what I remember Venters policy when he came in was.
Win at all costs, become the best team in the country and build an great academy foundation on top of a winning culture so that they come into a team of winners and have that confidence "projected onto them" or something like that.

End of the day whilst it is nice to have academy players playing, would the club gain more by having 1 academy player in a winning 23 or 4 academy players in a losing 23?

Exeter are pretty similar when they first came in it was win at all cost pretty much and then they added to the senior team gradually.

I'm a big fan of the academy and using them but the saracens way has been the most effective way of development.

Personally I think Murphy could be a good coach but he needs to have help from above and around him and Venter would be the perfect start to that even short term.

Mark62
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by Mark62 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:56 pm

POSTIGER wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:49 pm
Serious lack of leadership on the field. In the past, if it was going wrong, the likes of Jonno, Cozza, Kay, Geordan and even guys like Toby Flood took charge if it was going wrong and were like the on-field coaches. We just don't have that now. I'd say Ford brings that and Thompson seems a good talker but very few do. Easy for me to say but I think the club need to put sentiment to one side and appoint a new captain. I just don't think TY has it in him to be a great captain, sorry.
Wouldn’t disagree but like a lot of things at Tigers it just seems to have been allowed to drift.
I’m wondering if the original plan was to give it to Toomua but that went T U.

As a slight aside Dayglo asked Healey during the Saracens commentary what was going on at Leicester and even the Leicester lip stayed quiet

mol2
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by mol2 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:06 pm

Woeful performance.

Defence almost non-existent and leadership utterly missing

Sorry we need a defence coach and quite frankly OTY is not a leader on the field. When Polota-Nau is back he's not our best hooker.

Reminds me of the performances at home to Worcester and Saints last year. The players seem to think all they have to do to beat lower in the table teams is to turn up! Don't they understand that we have not been a good side for a long time and on recent form we are a lower in the table side. Talk of resting players in any match is delusional! We are simply not good enough to risk that. We have already shipped more tries than we used to in a season.
Last edited by mol2 on Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tigerbeat
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by Tigerbeat » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:06 pm

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:27 pm
[quote=DaveRave post_id=697541 time=1537715818

Appalling officiating. Weir was down receiving treatment centre field and Mills positioned himself behind them to receive the ball to clear. No way the defence could pressurise him and he makes 50m to give us a defensive line out, which we make a hash of.

Twice today injured players directly affected the ball in play and players around it. Neither time did Pearce appear to consider stopping the game.
In one of the situations Pearce asked if there was a medic with the player and was given a positive response....medic was on straight away.....so play carried on. The injured player was not seen to be in danger....
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BFG
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by BFG » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:13 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:54 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:46 pm
Disappointing from Leicester again and not to even be able to hold out at 37-37 against Worcester at Welford Road is not great.
You can't have mates as coaches in my opinion, how on earth they are supposed to get a dressing down after that I do not know.
It's almost become calamitous.
I remember Brendan Venter arriving at Sarries and soon after culling those 18 players, something similar required here.
Leicester requires a new man of that type from completely outside the Leicester bubble, in sole charge to stand and fall by his own decisions and pick his own team of coaches and players, a man of the right calibre will require that control.
Talk of Sarries building around home grown players when Venter arrived is total tosh as I recall a side packed with South Africans and recruits such as Borthwick from Bath, Brown from Galsgow, Vyvian from Newcastle, Botha from Bedford, Wigglesworth from Sale, Strettle from Quins etc.
There were very few home grown players at that time, maybe Farrell, George, Goode being the only survivors.
The proper coach will keep the right quality and the rest will go!
I'm not sure Leicester are brave enough to go outside of their comfort zone enough to achieve this!
From what I remember Venters policy when he came in was.
Win at all costs, become the best team in the country and build an great academy foundation on top of a winning culture so that they come into a team of winners and have that confidence "projected onto them" or something like that.

End of the day whilst it is nice to have academy players playing, would the club gain more by having 1 academy player in a winning 23 or 4 academy players in a losing 23?

Exeter are pretty similar when they first came in it was win at all cost pretty much and then they added to the senior team gradually.

I'm a big fan of the academy and using them but the saracens way has been the most effective way of development.

Personally I think Murphy could be a good coach but he needs to have help from above and around him and Venter would be the perfect start to that even short term.
Venter's response to taking charge was to be in a position to be able to cull 18 players of his choice.
I seriously doubt that anyone would be allowed to come into Leicester and do that!
Sarries academy is built off the back of that culture of taking responsibility, it's a natural progression, those of the right calibre required whatever that is will be retained and gain opportunities.
Players who are genuinely potentially good enough will survive, I don't think that is anything to be overly concerned about at this stage.
If there is anyone who might be concerned about their positions on the team and are unfluential then we might be getting to the crux of a problem.
It's about getting the right man in charge and it's also about him having control to be in a position to set the standards.

BigDan50
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by BigDan50 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:16 pm

We can't keep on blaming referees as they in general make the right decisions. Fans only tend to see the offences against their side and not see or don't look for the offences made by the side who they support, we are all guilty of this.

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by Bundy » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:30 pm

BigDan50 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:56 pm
GEORGE CHUTER, WHAT ANOTHER EX TIGER, ridiculous in the extreme.
Ridiculous??!! Have you seen how well GEORGE CHUTER has got Hinckley playing?? No?? I assume not and I will be watching them from now on as after 20 years of being a season ticket holders I can take no more

strawclearer
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by strawclearer » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:35 pm

On a positive note, we've got the current bottom club at Welford Road next weekend!

What could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by TigerCam » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:43 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:35 pm
On a positive note, we've got the current bottom club at Welford Road next weekend!

What could possibly go wrong?
I hope consistency goes out of the window?
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Robespierre
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by Robespierre » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:45 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:35 pm
On a positive note, we've got the current bottom club at Welford Road next weekend!

What could possibly go wrong?
Errrrr...............no, we surely couldn't lose .............. could we???

Having said that, Sale will firmly believe they have a chance of a bp win, and they wouldn't be wrong, would they?
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TigerCam
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by TigerCam » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:49 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:13 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:54 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:46 pm
Disappointing from Leicester again and not to even be able to hold out at 37-37 against Worcester at Welford Road is not great.
You can't have mates as coaches in my opinion, how on earth they are supposed to get a dressing down after that I do not know.
It's almost become calamitous.
I remember Brendan Venter arriving at Sarries and soon after culling those 18 players, something similar required here.
Leicester requires a new man of that type from completely outside the Leicester bubble, in sole charge to stand and fall by his own decisions and pick his own team of coaches and players, a man of the right calibre will require that control.
Talk of Sarries building around home grown players when Venter arrived is total tosh as I recall a side packed with South Africans and recruits such as Borthwick from Bath, Brown from Galsgow, Vyvian from Newcastle, Botha from Bedford, Wigglesworth from Sale, Strettle from Quins etc.
There were very few home grown players at that time, maybe Farrell, George, Goode being the only survivors.
The proper coach will keep the right quality and the rest will go!
I'm not sure Leicester are brave enough to go outside of their comfort zone enough to achieve this!
From what I remember Venters policy when he came in was.
Win at all costs, become the best team in the country and build an great academy foundation on top of a winning culture so that they come into a team of winners and have that confidence "projected onto them" or something like that.

End of the day whilst it is nice to have academy players playing, would the club gain more by having 1 academy player in a winning 23 or 4 academy players in a losing 23?

Exeter are pretty similar when they first came in it was win at all cost pretty much and then they added to the senior team gradually.

I'm a big fan of the academy and using them but the saracens way has been the most effective way of development.

Personally I think Murphy could be a good coach but he needs to have help from above and around him and Venter would be the perfect start to that even short term.
Venter's response to taking charge was to be in a position to be able to cull 18 players of his choice.
I seriously doubt that anyone would be allowed to come into Leicester and do that!
Sarries academy is built off the back of that culture of taking responsibility, it's a natural progression, those of the right calibre required whatever that is will be retained and gain opportunities.
Players who are genuinely potentially good enough will survive, I don't think that is anything to be overly concerned about at this stage.
If there is anyone who might be concerned about their positions on the team and are unfluential then we might be getting to the crux of a problem.
It's about getting the right man in charge and it's also about him having control to be in a position to set the standards.
"Personally I think Murphy could be a good coach but he needs to have help from above and around him and Venter would be the perfect start to that even short term." That is the problem! GM could be a good coach? The trouble is the Tigers need a good or better coach NOW!! This "nepotic" attitude that the BoD and others appear to have has to stop. Great players do not necessarily make great coaches!!
Whoever said "one person cannot change the world' never ate undercooked bat

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by JP14 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:53 pm

We lost that game because of defence, lineout was much better but then we got confused and the lifters didn’t lift high enough for whatever reason and we gifted them the score, Luke Pearce couldn’t have done any worse but the defeat can’t really be blamed on him really. Scrum was solid as ever and Harry Wells was excellent in the lineout when he came on making two steals. Ford was again excellent despite a wobbly start and we looked so much better with Eastmond on the field, Owen and Tuilagi just don’t work for whatever reason at the moment. On that note, Eastmond looked to have pulled a muscle again, hope it isn’t serious.

Dan Cole has to play the full 80 because Cortes pulled a muscle whilst warming up during the game, I can’t recall that ever happening before :smt005.

The backrow was actually really good, we just looked clueless and surprised. The defeat was clearly a mental thing, despite multiple warnings from coaches during the week we were still surprised at how well Worcester would play. Perhaps a psychologist is needed during the preseason?
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

JP14
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by JP14 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:55 pm

Geez guys it’s Round 4, when this is happening at Christmas I’ll start getting worried. I think this game just needs to be chalked off as a bad day at the office, that’s all it was. A high quality defence coach that could also act as a Stuart Lancaster type advisor is all that’s needed at the moment.
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Bundy
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by Bundy » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:02 pm

Only round 4? You may have had a point if it wasn't for the fact that we have been this poor for at least 4 years!!

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by jgriffin » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:10 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:34 pm
I am a self-confessed 'Happy Clapper'.

Smurf asked for the crowd to turn up and be the 16th man. The crowd duly obliged - we shouted ourselves senseless in the Crumbie. Bottom line - we turned up, the players didn't.

There is no point singling out individual players either for praise or for censure (although I was particularly disappointed in our 'senior players'). It's a team game - you win or lose as a XV.

That was an embarrassing shambles. Attack - pass:crash, pass:crash, pass:drop. Defence - laughable, disjointed, disorganised. Leadership - none.

Truly, truly pathetic.
Yep. And that was possibly our last game for a while, no dog minder, very dispirited :smt010
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